"Survival" fitness

[rob_s]

So there was a post elsewhere on M4C recently regarding physical fitness and hand-to-hand skills. While the post was rude and off topic, I wanted to see if we could re-kindle this discussion.

I maintain, and have always maintained, that maintaining a healthy lifestyle to include eating healthy/properly and getting at least some amount of physical exercise is more important, to a huge degree, than any fighting skills. I consider it to be a Hierarchy of Survivalism (tm). Much like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs where base physiological needs (air, food, water, sleep, etc.) must be met before the higher needs of safety, belonging, esteem, and self-actualization can be addressed, the factors or threats that are most likely to end one's life should be addressed before those that are less likely.

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention has a very interesting page on the Leading Causes of Death in Males, United States, 2004.

The basic, generic, average information is as follows, in order (the number is the percentage of deaths attributed to that cause):
All Males, All Ages
1) Heart disease 27.2
2) Cancer 24.3
3) Unintentional injuries 6.1
4) Stroke 5.0
5) Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.0
6) Diabetes 3.0
7) Influenza and pneumonia 2.3
8) Suicide 2.2
9) Kidney disease 1.7
10) Alzheimer's disease 1.6

Note that there is no mention of violent encounter. The CDC terms deaths caused by others as "Homicide" so it's very easy to track. Note that Homicide is not even in the top 10.

As one scrolls down the page you will see a further breakdown by race/ethnicity. But what is really interesting is if you click on the .pdf links they give you a breakdown by race and age so that one can see where you fall much more narrowly. This tells a much better tale, and there are many interesting conclusions we can come to based on this information.

These statistics are only one part of the equation however. Hopefully it goes without saying that one should eat well and get some exercise, and reduce the excess weight they carry around. This isn't just about long-term health but short-term enjoyment of life, but physical fitness is also related to one's ability to fight off infection, disease, and violent encounter as well as to recover from same. Other than arguments about a bullet having a hard time getting to the vitals of a larger man, I think that it goes without saying that there are benefits to leading a healthy lifestyle.

I'm curious in hearing others take on all of this. Are you into fitness and health as well as shooting and fighting? Do you ignore fitness and health but still focus on fighting? Do you think that they are entirely unrelated? and why do you have the opinions that you do? Are you "pro health" simply because you're naturally thin and in truth get no more exercise or eat any better than the 300lb guy? Do you ignore the health aspect simply because you lack self-control and the momentary happiness you get from a twinkie is more important than your long-term survival? And regardless of which camp you are in, how do you reconcile your actions with your beliefs/opinions?

[Spiffums]

I remember reading where race played some part in the results. Black Males suffer from higher percentages of heart disease and so forth.

I think as a nation we have moved away from manual labor to "mental labor". We are less active and stress plays more into why we get sick. If you are using your body to make a living and not sitting behind a computer you have a better active lifestyle than someone who sits in a cubby hole for 8 to 12 hours a day.

[Bill Bryant]

Thanks for posting this.

I'm no warrior, probably will never need to be one. I'm just an outdoorsman, hunter, hiker, and camper who recently started building his first AR.

But I have to say that I've never seen anything quite as silly as the photos of obese students in tactical training classes--all kinds of battle gear and weaponry draped over tubs of lard.

I would think that the first tactical advantage would be to be fit and not fat.

(FWIW I have to watch my weight constantly and believe that self-discipline in one area carries over to other areas and can be strengthened by exercising the will--forget the pills and fad diets; just eat less as a way of life and enjoy the results!)

[Romeo Foxtrot]

But I have to say that I've never seen anything quite as silly as the photos of obese students in tactical training classes--all kinds of battle gear and weaponry draped over tubs of lard.

I would think that the first tactical advantage would be to be fit and not fat.

I agree. The irony in these photos is amazing. Here these people are, training for what one day may be a life and death scenario; but their so fat and out of shape that they couldn't do a dash to the 100yd line with out suffering a massive heart attack. They're training to save their lives should they ever need to use a gun, yet they're far more likely to die an early death from being obese. And thats just the beginning. The above type of people are armchair warriors living out a dream getting to play dress up and play with their high dollar rifles doing drills.

Truth of the matter is, if the S ever HTF, these people, despite all their super tactical training from high dollar instructors; would be sitting ducks because they wouldn't be able to make it from their gun safe to the stop sign at the front of their driveway with out running out of breath, much less with 40lbs of shit on them.


If in a gun fight, I'd much rather be able to run a 200yd dash in 30sec with 40lbs of gear on me than have all sorts of cool guy tactical training. both would be even better....

[sadmin]

Im the same as the poster above. Im into being in the outdoors, many facets of it. Being fit or healthy is part of my lifestyle, shooting is my hobby. Im sure my POV would vary if I was mil, leo or shot as a trade. I can only assume that if I was, they would be amplified; as it would be a factor in the equation of my situational survival.

I am pro-health partly because I have been in sports since I was young. I suppose it just seems natural to want to exercise 5 times a week as i did in school. I ran cross country and swam. I run daily since I adhere to stamina over brute strength. I do watch what I eat, but that didnt start until I turned about 27. I wouldnt say it was because of weight gain; but because I believe that these days I intake far too many hormones, preservatives, and artificial garbage that is slowly trying to pull me under. I always tell my wife when we have our first child, we are going to eat all organic and a menu similar to that of the 1950's. I guess im lucky that I have a salty tooth rather than a sweet one, so im not into deserts. Not to digress on my diet.
Yes, they are directly related, and if you dont exercise but go shoot every weekend and throw knives at your fence thinking your gtg; well brother, if "the most annoying acronym" ever comes to materialize, I will give my regards to your family.

[Bill Bryant]

the most annoying acronym ever

I'm totally with you on this one.

[Al U. 5811]

My take would that if you are going to be serious, or at least taken serious, about your desire to hone your "battle skills" you should address all facets, armed and unarmed. This applies equally to professionals as well as the private Citizen. A personal fitness program along with some type of unarmed combat training really should not be as complex as most people try to make them out to be. Adding this to the firearms training that you do now, or at least should be doing, can only enhance that skill set that you are trying to master. Rather than trying to overcomplicate a basic fitness and self defense training regimen, concentrate on the basics and get good at that. Any martial arts, personal trainer, or firearms trainer will echo that same concept. You need to identify your needs then find a way to work it in with your work, home, and personal/play time. The bottom line is that if you keep it simple and fun it should stay as something you look forward to doing, even get excited for. A training partner (or partners) of the same skill level help also.

[WillBrink]

I start the seminars do i for LEO by pointing out that you wear a vest to prevent getting shot and go to the range (hopefully...) to shoot, but cardio vascular disease is what's likely to get you, so....This may not be a tacti-cool topic, but statistically speaking, Atherosclerosis is what kills most LEOs. It's the number one killer in the US, and LEOs suffer higher rates then the general public*, so staying in shape is essential to both short term and long term survival.

I'm always amazed at how out of shape the shooters are at the range, IDPA matches, courses I take, etc. It never fails to amaze me.

Obviously, the connection to overall fitness (e.g., GPP), not related to MA skills, shooting skills, etc is directly related to your ability to perform under stress and survive. As you go up the food chain in tactical/combat shooters, you will also note they tend to be in top condition. There are no fat slow guys at LA PD SWAT, or DevGru, or FBI HRT, etc. and there's a reason for that...

* = In studies looking at higher rates of CVD in the LEO population, even when they adjust for the "usual suspects" which is smoking, lack of exercise, and diet, they still suffer higher rates. They attribute that to the stress.

[Gutshot John]

Fitness is a risk factor that can be controlled, but it's not the only one. If the most annoying acronym does occur, people are going to start dropping weight in a hurry, but a lot of "fat bodies" are still going to survive the pocaclypse. You don't need to be in SeAL/HRT conditioning to survive. You mostly need to be smart. I'm definitely overweight, but have low blood pressure and low cholesterol. Not everyone is going to be, nor needs to be, a SWAT guy.

Go out and exercise regularly in a moderate way, eat healthy foods that you enjoy. You'll do much more good then trying to get all butch and try a diet and exercise program that you're not going to be able to maintain. While I don't see a lot of fat guys in SWAT type outfits, I do see fat guys who used to be. That level of fitness is not sustainable for them, let alone most people here.

Tactical/Survival fitness is all well and good, but no guarantee that you won't die of CVD...or of a hole in your head. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx

Something else to consider is that increasingly it's becoming clear that true fitness comes from living an active lifestyle, meaning you are physically active during your daily routine. "Working out" might actually be counter-productive for most people. http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...914857,00.html

[rob_s]

Fitness is a risk factor that can be controlled, but it's not the only one. If the most annoying acronym does occur, people are going to start dropping weight in a hurry, but a lot of "fat bodies" are still going to survive the pocaclypse.

Tactical/Survival fitness is all well and good, but no guarantee that you won't die of CVD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fixx

I find this logic fatally flawed.

Obviously the person with the healthiest lifestyle can drop dead of a heart attack right in the middle of running. But it doesn't mean that being in shape is bad, and it's a truly ironic stance for anyone to take who is preparing for something (violent attack) that in and of itself is so unlikely to happen as to be statistically insignificant. In 2005 just under 17k people died of Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter out of a total population of just under 300M (source). Of that 17k, approximately 8k were black (source).

Not to mention the fact that a heightened sense of awareness, modification of basic behaviors, and limitations on traveling to dangerous areas or locations are FAR bigger determining factors as to whether or not you are likely to be murdered or otherwise assaulted than any "running and gunning" skills learned at the latest training class.

If we're going to take the fatalistic "even skinny healthy guys die of hear attacks so I'm just going to be big and fat" approach, then certainly "preparing" for a death that is even less likely is silly at best.