"Survival" fitness

[rob_s]

That level of fitness is not sustainable for them, let alone most people here.

Maybe not, depending on what level you're referring to, but I'm of the belief that it takes a lot more effort to be obese than it does to be thin. Forget activity levels for a minute and look strictly at excess body weight. To walk around at 300 lbs you have to WORK to maintain that level of fat. Your body does not just naturally balloon up. To build a house you need bricks and to build fat you need food.

If you go from an active lifestyle to a sedentary one, you have to adjust your intake. If you get older and your body metabolism slows down, you need to reduce your intake. Getting, and maintaining, even 50 lbs over where you should be takes a huge amount of effort. It's mental laziness, not physical, since that person chooses not to think about what they are eating, but it is way more work than taking in the right amount (and the right kind) of food to maintain a healthy weight.

[Gutshot John]

But it doesn't mean that being in shape is bad

Didn't say it was. Give another read.

The point was that what you have between your ears is going to be a larger factor in survival than whether you have a gut.

It's always a little amusing that skinny guys think it's about being "lazy". I know a lot of "fat bodies" who work for hours trying to control their weight with counter-productive results. It's not about lazy, but like firearms, one size of exercise program does not work for all. Having a gut doesn't mean you're out of shape anymore than not having one means you in shape...it's simply a "risk factor".

People would do well to understand that "risk factor" doesn't mean something will happen. It only means that when taken over the sum total of a whole population, those with a gut have a higher risk of problems, not that a particular individual will.

[rob_s]

The point was that what you have between your ears is going to be a larger factor in survival than whether you have a gut.

survival of what? Armageddon? A fist fight? A gun fight? A cheeseburger?

It's always a little amusing that skinny guys think it's about being "lazy". I know a lot of "fat bodies" who work for hours trying to control their weight with counter-productive results. It's not about lazy, but like firearms, one size of exercise program does not work for all. Having a gut doesn't mean you're out of shape anymore than not having one means you in shape...it's simply a "risk factor".

I see a "gut" as a mindset indicator. And a "gut" on someone that is spending thousands of dollars a year on guns, range time, ammo, barrels full of rice, training classes, etc. is an indicator of a pretty screwy mindset IMHO.

FWIW, it's also equally amusing when fat guys think that skinny guys are that way with zero effort. I have a fat friend who, every time we go to dinner with the group, delights in saying "hey you guys, look at what the skinny guy is eating". Hmm, maybe that should be a clue as you scarf down two appetizers, an entree with 2-3 sides, and a desert to my one breadless sandwich with a side of vegetables or rice. Or how about my breakfast of yogurt, a hard boiled egg, a granola bar, and a banana to yours of three pancakes two fried eggs four pieces of bacon...

People would do well to understand that "risk factor" doesn't mean something will happen.

No, it doesn't. But it is the height of silliness to ignore an extremely likely potential cause of death and instead prepare for one that is so unlikely as to be statistically insignificant.

It would be like driving to the gun range to go practice your self-defense skills while doing 95 on the interstate weaving in and out of traffic with no seatbelt on and your 8th beer in the last 2 hours wedged in your crotch.

[Gutshot John]

Maybe not, depending on what level you're referring to, but I'm of the belief that it takes a lot more effort to be obese than it does to be thin.

Spoken like a really skinny dude. I know you mean well, but I'm guessing it's not something you've ever had to worry about. Yes you may put in effort, but that effort yields results that not everyone gets. People have different metabolisms, that's not even controversial to state.

Willbrink said that one doesn't see fat guys in HRT type groups and while that's certainly true, we're not HRT types. That's why I referred to them. I

Obese is a specific criteria. Many people are overweight/out of shape without being obese. Even if you're obese, it doesn't mean you're going to die on fire either.

The variables are so many here that making simple, pat overreaching conclusions are somewhat simplistic.

Yes, eat less and move more, but it's unrealistic that we're all going to become welterweights.

[Gutshot John]

survival of what? Armageddon? A fist fight? A gun fight? A cheeseburger?

Yes.

I see a "gut" as a mindset indicator. And a "gut" on someone that is spending thousands of dollars a year on guns, range time, ammo, barrels full of rice, training classes, etc. is an indicator of a pretty screwy mindset IMHO.

So those people should stop training and get in shape before they are qualified to stand on the line with you?

FWIW, it's also equally amusing when fat guys think that skinny guys are that way with zero effort. I have a fat friend who, every time we go to dinner with the group, delights in saying "hey you guys, look at what the skinny guy is eating". Hmm, maybe that should be a clue as you scarf down two appetizers, an entree with 2-3 sides, and a desert to my one breadless sandwich with a side of vegetables or rice. Or how about my breakfast of yogurt, a hard boiled egg, a granola bar, and a banana to yours of three pancakes two fried eggs four pieces of bacon...

I also see skinny guys put away large pizzas with extra pepperoni, while I do everything I can to eat right, cook my own food. I don't eat junk or soda but no matter what I do, there is only so much weight I'm going to lose.

No, it doesn't. But it is the height of silliness to ignore an extremely likely potential cause of death and instead prepare for one that is so unlikely as to be statistically insignificant.

Who said anything about ignoring anything?

It would be like driving to the gun range to go practice your self-defense skills while doing 95 on the interstate weaving in and out of traffic with no seatbelt on and your 8th beer in the last 2 hours wedged in your crotch.

Uhm no. Sorry but to compare it to such recklessness is more than a bit silly.

[rob_s]

it's unrealistic that we're all going to become welterweights.

I see very few even try.

[rob_s]

Yes.



So those people should stop training and get in shape before they are qualified to stand on the line with you?



I also see skinny guys put away large pizzas with extra pepperoni, while I do everything I can to eat right, cook my own food. I don't eat junk or soda but no matter what I do, there is only so much weight I'm going to lose.



Who said anything about ignoring anything?



Uhm no. Sorry but to compare it to such recklessness is more than a bit silly.

So now this makes more sense. You're taking it personally because you yourself are overweight and have convinced yourself that there's nothing you can do about it. Gotcha.

[rob_s]

Look, this has nothing to do with who's qualified to stand on a line with me, or train with me, or whatever. I don't frankly give a damn if fat bastard drops dead on the drive home from a coronary as long as he is physically able to keep up with the class and not slow things down or knows when things are beyond his limitations and takes himself off the line.

But...

Excuses and attempts at side-tracking the discussion aside, I'm still wondering why one would spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours preparing for something that is statistically unlikely to happen and ignore something that is statistically much more likely to kill them.

I have never, ever, spent any amount of time with a person that weighs 50lbs more than what they clearly should who also maintains anything close to a healthy diet and gets even so much as a shred of exercise. Maybe these people exist (they must because I meet them on the internet every time this discussion comes up, them and the ones with the "gland problems"), but I haven't seen them.

[Gutshot John]

withdrawn.

[WillBrink]

Fitness is a risk factor that can be controlled, but it's not the only one. If the most annoying acronym does occur, people are going to start dropping weight in a hurry, but a lot of "fat bodies" are still going to survive the pocaclypse. You don't need to be in SeAL/HRT conditioning to survive. You mostly need to be smart. I'm definitely overweight, but have low blood pressure and low cholesterol. Not everyone is going to be, nor needs to be, a SWAT guy.

My point was only that conditioning plays an essential role in the ability of your top of the food chain combat shooters. It may simply be they can run away faster and farther, or drag a wounded person, carry loads, recoup faster from stress, etc., but higher up the food chain you go, the more emphasis on physical conditioning you will see, in addition to the other more obvious stuff. For the average person, physical performance can play a critical part of your survival in a confrontation, or other.

Go out and exercise regularly in a moderate way, eat healthy foods that you enjoy. You'll do much more good then trying to get all butch and try a diet and exercise program that you're not going to be able to maintain. While I don't see a lot of fat guys in SWAT type outfits, I do see fat guys who used to be. That level of fitness is not sustainable for them, let alone most people here.

Again, only using extreme examples, and I am not in top tier SWAT condition either at 44 I assure you! Age, physical restrictions, etc all have to be factored in. It's a matter of staying in the best condition you can under your own set of circumstances.

Tactical/Survival fitness is all well and good, but no guarantee that you won't die of CVD...

There are no guarantees in any of it, it's about reducing the risk factors as best you can. but control them (ergo, greatly reduce you risk of CVD) you can. Life is 100% fatal, 100% of the time, in 100% of the people, so we're all going that way, like or not. It's an issue of stacking the deck in your favor for both functional healthy longevity or being able to physically deal with what life throws at you, which may include having run away from a BG, etc.

It is a simple fact that those who ignore their physical conditioning as part of their overall strategy to deal with potential threats (1) do so at their own peril (2) are a liability to those who know it's an essential part of the keep-my-ass-alive equation.

Good luck.