"Survival" fitness

[WillBrink]

I'm still wondering why one would spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours preparing for something that is statistically unlikely to happen and ignore something that is statistically much more likely to kill them.

Which, as you know, is my opening line from my seminars for LEOs...

[epf]

I'm still wondering why one would spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours preparing for something that is statistically unlikely to happen and ignore something that is statistically much more likely to kill them.

Rob-

The Phenomenon of guys spending thousands of dollars and countless hours deciding how to attach a sling or which camo pattern on the flap of their recondo chest rig (two hobbies that I enjoy by the way) is dumbfounding and probably not going to be solved here. I read alot of forums and post rarely. It is often the same guys that will attack and condescend to some guy because his choice of gear/technique etc. will not " work in a real fight" who are not fighting fit. Being fit does not mean washboard abs or look any certain way. Fitness is about performance. We have all been to classes where there are guys who cannot get up form a knee after the first drill.

I am glad you pointed it out, but I doubt it will accomplish much.

[Gutshot John]

To a certain extent there is a difference between health and fitness but those differences are being glossed-over.

The first is general CV health, watching what you eat and moderate exercise stave off the effects of aging, but in the end most (if not everyone) still die from heart attacks. This is simply fitness, there is no survival, there is no tactical...it's just good health. I carry extra weight, but in this vein am I more or less healthy than a skinny guy who smokes, eats like crap and otherwise abuses his body even if he is thin?

The second is "survival" fitness meaning you can sustain the fight longer than the other guy. All other things being equal, it's still survival of the fittest. I don't think anyone seriously questions this truth. The key is then that you make sure that all other things are NOT equal....training, gear all seek to address those shortcomings and have been the explicit purpose of firearms since "Sam Colt made men equal."

As for why people spend money on a statistical near-impossibility...I think it's interesting anecdotally, but I would say that people focus on what they fear. Dying of a heart attack happens so much more often in advancing years that it is not commonly feared in our demographic in fact it's something of a running joke to say that eventually "everyone dies of a heart attack." What I think rob is talking about is dying of a heart attack at 45 which is as much about bad luck/genes as it is about lifestyle choices.

[Gutshot John]

My point was only that conditioning plays an essential role in the ability of your top of the food chain combat shooters. It may simply be they can run away faster and farther, or drag a wounded person, carry loads, recoup faster from stress, etc., but higher up the food chain you go, the more emphasis on physical conditioning you will see, in addition to the other more obvious stuff. For the average person, physical performance can play a critical part of your survival in a confrontation, or other.



Again, only using extreme examples, and I am not in top tier SWAT condition either at 44 I assure you! Age, physical restrictions, etc all have to be factored in. It's a matter of staying in the best condition you can under your own set of circumstances.

There are no guarantees in any of it, it's about reducing the risk factors as best you can. but control them (ergo, greatly reduce you risk of CVD) you can. Life is 100% fatal, 100% of the time, in 100% of the people, so we're all going that way, like or not. It's an issue of stacking the deck in your favor for both functional healthy longevity or being able to physically deal with what life throws at you, which may include having run away from a BG, etc.

It is a simple fact that those who ignore their physical conditioning as part of their overall strategy to deal with potential threats (1) do so at their own peril (2) are a liability to those who know it's an essential part of the keep-my-ass-alive equation.

Good luck.

Sorry didn't see this earlier when I replied but I appreciate the thoughtful response and especially the part I bolded.

[militarymoron]

Maybe not, depending on what level you're referring to, but I'm of the belief that it takes a lot more effort to be obese than it does to be thin. Forget activity levels for a minute and look strictly at excess body weight. To walk around at 300 lbs you have to WORK to maintain that level of fat. Your body does not just naturally balloon up. To build a house you need bricks and to build fat you need food.

rob, i'll have to disagree with you on this - i find it MUCH easier to balloon up than not. i can put away a 500 calorie burger in 5 minutes. to burn that off, it'll take an hour of aerobic activity.
to build fat you need food. i love good (tasting) food. i find it much easier to have access to food and eat than exercise. i don't have to move to eat. i have to move to exercise. it's easier to eat.
i'm 41. i'm increasingly finding that it takes more effort to maintain the same fitness level that i had when i was 20 or 30. my body naturally wants to get fat if i eat and don't work out. it takes effort to eat healthy food. i love fried food. i'm craving fried catfish right now.

that being said, i make the effort - both in maintaining a moderately healthy lifestyle and diet. i eat what i like in moderation. i exercise on a regular basis.

i think that being healthy (w/r to CV) and also 'fit' (strong, flexible etc), has a lot of pros and no cons (other than the effort it takes - both mentally, physically, and making the time to maintain it). whether it's for fighting, SHTF (yes, i said it), tying your shoe laces, getting in and out of the car - basically for everything you do except watch TV.

for me, getting fatter doesn't require much effort. all i need to do is eat more and move less. and enjoy the tast of my food. but being fatter requires more effort when i DO need to move, and that's why i try to keep off the fat (not weight).

[p7fl]

This was an interesting topic to read over my lunch of a single slice of pizza with olives.
I work out every day, every day, mostly hard, sometimes if I am beat just a hike on the treadmill. It takes mental discipline to keep it up day in and day out. I may miss about 4 days a year.
I don’t care if someone is mildly or heavily overweight, but their credibility drops immediately when I hear them talking the tactical talk. I will listen, because you can never tell where a nugget will come.
But...please don’t tell me about mindset.
Jon
Age 60

[Bill Bryant]

rob, i'll have to disagree with you on this - i find it MUCH easier to balloon up than not. i can put away a 500 calorie burger in 5 minutes. to burn that off, it'll take an hour of aerobic activity.
to build fat you need food. i love good (tasting) food. i find it much easier to have access to food and eat than exercise. i don't have to move to eat. i have to move to exercise. it's easier to eat.
i'm 41. i'm increasingly finding that it takes more effort to maintain the same fitness level that i had when i was 20 or 30. my body naturally wants to get fat if i eat and don't work out. it takes effort to eat healthy food. i love fried food. i'm craving fried catfish right now.

that being said, i make the effort - both in maintaining a moderately healthy lifestyle and diet. i eat what i like in moderation. i exercise on a regular basis.

i think that being healthy (w/r to CV) and also 'fit' (strong, flexible etc), has a lot of pros and no cons (other than the effort it takes - both mentally, physically, and making the time to maintain it). whether it's for fighting, SHTF (yes, i said it), tying your shoe laces, getting in and out of the car - basically for everything you do except watch TV.

for me, getting fatter doesn't require much effort. all i need to do is eat more and move less. and enjoy the tast of my food. but being fatter requires more effort when i DO need to move, and that's why i try to keep off the fat (not weight).

I think maybe what was meant by the earlier comment was that living obese takes more effort than living thinner. Getting thin takes much mental effort in the form of self-control over the urge to eat. Getting fat takes nothing but milkshakes, fries, beer, and pizza. Once thin though, living thin is easier than living fat. Live fat and try walking uphill for a mile with someone who is living thin. Live fat and try mowing the lawn next door to someone who is living thin. Living thin is less exhausting than living fat.

[militarymoron]

I think maybe what was meant by the earlier comment was that living obese takes more effort than living thinner.

could be. didn't read it that way when i answered.

[C4IGrant]

I agree. The irony in these photos is amazing. Here these people are, training for what one day may be a life and death scenario; but their so fat and out of shape that they couldn't do a dash to the 100yd line with out suffering a massive heart attack. They're training to save their lives should they ever need to use a gun, yet they're far more likely to die an early death from being obese. And thats just the beginning. The above type of people are armchair warriors living out a dream getting to play dress up and play with their high dollar rifles doing drills.

Truth of the matter is, if the S ever HTF, these people, despite all their super tactical training from high dollar instructors; would be sitting ducks because they wouldn't be able to make it from their gun safe to the stop sign at the front of their driveway with out running out of breath, much less with 40lbs of shit on them.


If in a gun fight, I'd much rather be able to run a 200yd dash in 30sec with 40lbs of gear on me than have all sorts of cool guy tactical training. both would be even better....

Speaking of silly posts, this is one of them.

I have several friends that would be classified as "obese." Can they run/move pretty well for a guy over 6 foot and 250-300? Sure can. You can be overweight and STILL be mobile (ever watch football and see some of these guys move)??

As Civy, the average distance of a gun fight is conversational distance. No running, no fast roping or hiking 8 miles up hill in the jungle. So gun fighting ability in ones home, parking lot, mall, church, etc is VERY important (above physical fitness).
Now could a lot these guys in the pics stand to lose some weight and watch what they eat so they will live a longer life? Sure could, but this has zero to do with fighting with a weapon.



C4

[rob_s]

I think maybe what was meant by the earlier comment was that living obese takes more effort than living thinner. Getting thin takes much mental effort in the form of self-control over the urge to eat. Getting fat takes nothing but milkshakes, fries, beer, and pizza. Once thin though, living thin is easier than living fat. Live fat and try walking uphill for a mile with someone who is living thin. Live fat and try mowing the lawn next door to someone who is living thin. Living thin is less exhausting than living fat.

Yes and no.

You do still have to feed the gut. It's not like you gorge until you're 100 lbs overweight and then switch to carrots and water 3x a day and maintain that weight. You have to make a choice to eat the bacon cheeseburger instead of the grilled chicken sandwich, and just eating one of those cheeseburgers isn't going to do it. You have to feed the gut 3 (or 6?) meals a day.