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Thread: Lessons Learned In Combat

  1. #21
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    Outstanding information - thank you.

  2. #22
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    RetreatHell,

    Check.

    OUTSTANDING !

    Thanks for your service and sacrifices.

  3. #23
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    Paul - your answer was superb and I'm tracking.

    To build upon your your point, what would be wrong with training to the std that all reloads in combat - whether actually taking incoming fire or in any situation that hasn't been completely consolidated - being "speed reload" - for the first two thirds of it where you drop the mag to the ground and get a full mag/round chambered - then leave last third the tactical reload part for having time to reach down to you boots and grab the dropped mag and plop it in the dump pouch or whatever. If you're reloading on the move in a compromised situation - oop ty goo.

    I'm long a civilian and the odds of having to fight with a carbine are slim to none but that's how I approach it. I'm just a recreational occassional 3 gunner and I could care less about my point deductions for AR mags hitting the deck. But I'm coaching a 21 year old who aspires to be an Infantryman. I intend to send him to a top quality carbine course. I thought I might. Your AAR sealed it.

    Thanks again.
    "Whatever it's for; it wasn't possible until now!!!" - KrampusArms

  4. #24
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    As someone who would very much like to join the Marine Corps either during or after I graduate from college I realize I really need to get some good training, especially after reading this thread. I know one of the first things doing in the next month is get the Magpul Dynamics Art of the carbine DVDs. thanks for the AAR
    -They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security- Benjamin Franklin

    -Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I Live, I will kill you. If I Die, You are forgiven." Such is the Rule of Honor.- Lamb of God- Omerta

    ابن بيت وأنا كافر

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Paul - your answer was superb and I'm tracking.

    To build upon your your point, what would be wrong with training to the std that all reloads in combat - whether actually taking incoming fire or in any situation that hasn't been completely consolidated - being "speed reload" - for the first two thirds of it where you drop the mag to the ground and get a full mag/round chambered - then leave last third the tactical reload part for having time to reach down to you boots and grab the dropped mag and plop it in the dump pouch or whatever.
    The problem is that in a military context where it's easy to get cut off from your larger unit and resupply, ditching partially loaded magazines or even empty magazines can come back to haunt you in a protracted fight. In a Vickers carbine class LAV shared that during various activities in Somalia a lot of guys who had been used to just dumping partially loaded mags to do a speed reload found out real fast that they could have really used that ammo they left laying on the ground. The average joe in CONUS or the average police officer isn't as likely to find themselves in that sort of circumstance as, say, a Marine who's part of an effort to clear insurgents out of Fallujah. In that context it's easier for the fight to be protracted, easier to get cut off from your support structure, and easier to step into a level of suck that you just don't see many other places.

    Going back and picking up the partially loaded or empty mags later sounds like a good idea...but in reality combat is generally going to be fast moving and probably won't allow you much (if any) time to go back and police up your gear...and in low light it's going to be almost impossible even if for some reason you had the time and the desire. Think about clearing a building. When you get through one room you have to keep moving to keep from losing the initiative. You won't have time to police up your mags if you need to reload in a room because you just punched a couple of jihadist tickets to paradise. It's also unlikely you'll remember where you dropped your magazine as your mind was probably focused on more important things...like trying to keep an eye on the asshole you were trying to kill when you went dry.

    The key to all of this is context. There's a time and a place to retain empty or partially loaded magazines...and there's a time and a place to just focus on getting the gun up again as quickly as possible. By yourself, in a close range fight with multiple threats it's best to just forget about the empty magazine and focus all your effort and energy on getting the weapon up as quickly as humanly possible, because heaven only knows when some asshole with an AK is going to pop out and start using you for target practice.

    If you're engaging a threat with a few other guys from your unit/team at longer range and you're static behind some cover...yes, by all means retain your magazines. The key is to know the situation and what's important at that exact moment.

    If you're under 25 yards away from a couple of dudes you've just tried to put down and your weapon locked back while you were still trying to shoot, the most important thing in the world to you at that moment is to get your weapon back into fighting condition. Forget about the empty mag and get a new magazine into that weapon as quickly as humanly possible. Maintain situational awareness...and keeping on the move would probably be a good idea too.
    Last edited by John_Wayne777; 09-27-09 at 15:29.

  6. #26
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    Thanks for the great post and info guys!
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

    The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

    Whining in a forum that people have seen your thread, but not replied, reeks of an odd brand of desperation. - Me

    Titling your thread "To XYZ or Not to XYZ" will cause me to completely ignore your thread.

  7. #27
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    John Wayne,
    Thank you for your patience. I understand. Makes total sense.
    I too don't consider "returning" per se to police up mags to be realistic at all. And I understand it's situation dependent. My sense it that it takes a fair degree of experience for many to discriminate and execute differently for different situations and until they attain that level of experience they may have one hard wired way.
    Again, I appreciate the explanation. I'm nearly a zero on formal training. I've just a modest amount of formal pistol training from Tom Givens but I'm a quick study. Thanks for the help.
    "Whatever it's for; it wasn't possible until now!!!" - KrampusArms

  8. #28
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    Paul, God bless you and thank you dearly for your sacrifice in honor of your family and your country.

    You're a phenomenal man. I know your family is proud of you. I know I am.

    Regards...

  9. #29
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    And, of course, you would need to ensure that you didn't mix partial mags with empty mags in the dump pouch either.
    Hell, go ahead and mix them. Sort them out and consolidate mags during a lull.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  10. #30
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    Great original and subsequent post and something to remind me of the sacrifices so many of you have made and to "drive on" when I think I'm having a tough day.

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