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Thread: CMMG Bargin Bin

  1. #31
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    Thank you for qualifying your statement with additional detail.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    i thinks the CMMG deal, is great, because after all.? an AR is an AR.
    pretty much all the same, just differant stickers on the door.
    peabody
    Ehhhhh, I think you just opened up a can of worms there. I for one think that there is a difference in the quality of rifles from the top tier (DD, BCM, Colt, Noveske, etc) and "the others." As far as casual plinkers, you won't notice much a difference in shootability but the quality, and longevity will be missing. Some make a big deal, but for me, I want quality the first time. As people have said here before, "Buy once, cry once"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by asolo View Post
    Ehhhhh, I think you just opened up a can of worms there. I for one think that there is a difference in the quality of rifles from the top tier (DD, BCM, Colt, Noveske, etc) and "the others." As far as casual plinkers, you won't notice much a difference in shootability but the quality, and longevity will be missing. Some make a big deal, but for me, I want quality the first time. As people have said here before, "Buy once, cry once"



    well ? like i said ? mine is all bushmaster.. runs fine, but keep in mind, im still a bottom feeder, of the AR world .. but im learning ?
    i thoughts ..[and the navy told me not to]..lol !! but i was under the impression ? that mil-spec, is mil-spec ? hence the quote an AR is an AR.
    its ok, if im wrong, .... thats why im reading these boards, maybe ? i'll learn something.
    hope so.


    peabody

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    well ? like i said ? mine is all bushmaster.. runs fine, but keep in mind, im still a bottom feeder, of the AR world .. but im learning ?
    i thoughts ..[and the navy told me not to]..lol !! but i was under the impression ? that mil-spec, is mil-spec ? hence the quote an AR is an AR.
    its ok, if im wrong, .... thats why im reading these boards, maybe ? i'll learn something.
    hope so.

    peabody
    Actually, mil-spec is just the absolute minimum quality the US Govt will accept when purchasing weapons. It is published in the TDP and anyone doing business with the Military needs to conform. That assures standardization of all weapons of the same type.
    That being said, nothing says a rifle not meant for Uncle Sam can't have parts that are better in quality or function than Mil-spec. Conversely, nothing prevents a manufacturer from using any parts he wants and not coming close to even meeting Mil-spec minimums. You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that all ARs, including your Bushmaster, meet Mil-Spec. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a lot of junk out there, even rifles claiming to meet Mil-Spec. Also, one part being Mil-spec, means nothing with respect to the rest of the rifle. So if a Manufacturer claims their lower has a Mil-spec finish, all that means is the outside is finished like a military weapon. The trigger group, assorted springs and pins, and the receiver extension could be cheap junk.

    All ARs are not the same. Some are good, some are great, and some could probably malfunction and die during your first case of ammo. It's up to you to do some research. There are hundreds of threads here about what qualities may or may not be important in a high quality rifle. You have to find the ones you think are important for your particular needs (weekend plinker, home defense, Law enforcement, target shooting, varmint hunting, etc.)
    Colt SP6920, LE6920, 6720
    BCM Lower/ARP 6.8SPC upper for hog hunting
    DD M4V5 clone, Troy 5.56 Carbine, S&W M&P10
    PSA Lower/BCM LW 16" middie CHF upper
    PSA Lower/BCM LW 14.5" middie upper
    2 PSA 18"6.8 rifles, PSA 20" M16A4 clone
    Remington 870, Remington 700VTR
    SA XDm9, XDm9C, , XD9SC S&W 1911
    Ruger GP100, Hawkeye77 Compact 6.8SPC
    Kel-Tec KSG, Marlin 336 30-30, HK 45C, VP9
    Sig 1911 Tacops, Scorpion 1911, M11A1, P226 Mk25

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdxpilot View Post
    Actually, mil-spec is just the absolute minimum quality the US Govt will accept when purchasing weapons. It is published in the TDP and anyone doing business with the Military needs to conform. That assures standardization of all weapons of the same type.
    That being said, nothing says a rifle not meant for Uncle Sam can't have parts that are better in quality or function than Mil-spec. Conversely, nothing prevents a manufacturer from using any parts he wants and not coming close to even meeting Mil-spec minimums. You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that all ARs, including your Bushmaster, meet Mil-Spec. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a lot of junk out there, even rifles claiming to meet Mil-Spec. Also, one part being Mil-spec, means nothing with respect to the rest of the rifle. So if a Manufacturer claims their lower has a Mil-spec finish, all that means is the outside is finished like a military weapon. The trigger group, assorted springs and pins, and the receiver extension could be cheap junk.

    All ARs are not the same. Some are good, some are great, and some could probably malfunction and die during your first case of ammo. It's up to you to do some research. There are hundreds of threads here about what qualities may or may not be important in a high quality rifle. You have to find the ones you think are important for your particular needs (weekend plinker, home defense, Law enforcement, target shooting, varmint hunting, etc.)



    now that sure opened my eyes.!!
    so now i understand, mil-spec can be anything, ok.
    i got my bushmaster a few years ago in a farm equipment trade, i knew then, and a little more so now, very little about ar's.
    but ? from reading these boards ? bushmaster is one of the supply for our military? correct?
    so i ''assume'' mine is mil-spec.
    in the years i've had mine, its always worked, and its had a hard life, on the tractor, pickup, 4wheeler, but shes always went bang.
    your right, i did think they was all the same. very glad you explained it to me.
    maybe i just got a good one, luck of the draw.
    thanks, for explaining, and your patience sir,


    peabody

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    bushmaster is one of the supply for our military? correct?
    so i ''assume'' mine is mil-spec.
    peabody
    Actually, as I understand from perusing this website, only Colt and FN actually supply rifles to the US military. LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) make parts and sights for the military. Both Colt and LMT sell rifles and parts on the civilian market. FN doesn't. Now the government may contract with other companies for non-military agencies (DEA uses RRA ARs) or for foreign militaries.
    Bushmaster does make some nice rifles, but from what I've read, their basic carbine falls short or differs from Mil-spec in several areas. As I mentioned, this is not always bad. A 20" Stainless Steel fluted 1 in 12 twist barrel may be just the ticket for a target or varmint rifle, but it's not mil-spec.
    If your Bushie has served you well, great. On the other hand, one of our members is an armourer for a Govt Contracter in the sandbox, and he doesn't care much for the ones he has to maintain. As I said, you have to determine what works for you.
    Last edited by fdxpilot; 10-04-09 at 03:39.
    Colt SP6920, LE6920, 6720
    BCM Lower/ARP 6.8SPC upper for hog hunting
    DD M4V5 clone, Troy 5.56 Carbine, S&W M&P10
    PSA Lower/BCM LW 16" middie CHF upper
    PSA Lower/BCM LW 14.5" middie upper
    2 PSA 18"6.8 rifles, PSA 20" M16A4 clone
    Remington 870, Remington 700VTR
    SA XDm9, XDm9C, , XD9SC S&W 1911
    Ruger GP100, Hawkeye77 Compact 6.8SPC
    Kel-Tec KSG, Marlin 336 30-30, HK 45C, VP9
    Sig 1911 Tacops, Scorpion 1911, M11A1, P226 Mk25

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdxpilot View Post
    Actually, as I understand from perusing this website, only Colt and FN actually supply rifles to the US military. LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) make parts and sights for the military. Both Colt and LMT sell rifles and parts on the civilian market. FN doesn't. Now the government may contract with other companies for non-military agencies (DEA uses RRA ARs) or for foreign militaries.
    Bushmaster does make some nice rifles, but from what I've read, their basic carbine falls short or differs from Mil-spec in several areas. As I mentioned, this is not always bad. A 20" Stainless Steel fluted 1 in 12 twist barrel may be just the ticket for a target or varmint rifle, but it's not mil-spec.
    If your Bushie has served you well, great. On the other hand, one of our members is an armourer for a Govt Contracter in the sandbox, and he doesn't care much for the ones he has to maintain. As I said, you have to determine what works for you.


    i'll have to agree with you, i was in OIF, 04-06. at the time our guys where carrying colts, not that i paid much attention at the time, was just glad they was with us. [convoys]. that's one of the reasons i traded for my AR, those rifles was tough,
    i'll say colts, because of what you just told me. i never really looked for a brand name, just saw them as an M16/ar15.
    the one i really wanted at the time was my buddy's sgt,jimmy's SAW ..lol !
    anyway, the boys liked their weapons, from what i gathered. and i traded for mine when i got home, not knowing anything about them.
    my learnig curve is kinda flat, but im getting there.
    peabody

  8. #38
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    First I'm new to ARs but not new to guns, own about 15 of them. I bought a couple of these bargin bin rifles, one for a friend the other will be as a christmas gift for my brother. I'm still waiting on a upper for myself as this would be my first AR. The bargin bin rifles looked fine, no dents, scratches, it cycled nice. The barrel is marked CMMG WASP 5.56 NATO 1/9, and both upper & lower are from CMMG. I know it needs to be shot but at first glance I thought what a nice rifle from a small company. I'll learn more when it gets shot, but you can't beat that price for an AR. Real nice as any gift too. I'm sure there are much better quality manufactors. Just my .02 worth.
    Last edited by fmkenner; 10-05-09 at 06:05.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmkenner View Post
    ...but you can't beat that price for an AR.
    I never really understood that sentiment when it comes to a piece like this. I'm not trying to pick on you, it's just that your quote perfectly sums up my confusion.

    In my mind, the primary value of a tool is that it functions. If a tool does not work, or does not work reliably, it has little to no value. So far, the people who are speaking out about the great value of these guns (including those links to other forums), are mostly speaking of their aesthetic value.

    By my count, we have two posters so far with trigger time on one of these guns (unless I mistakenly glazed over others). One had 1,000 rounds without problems before passing the gun off. One, who purchased his more recently, discovered major malfunctions (of a dangerous nature) in the FCG when he was just into his first magazine.

    A tiny sample size for this particular gun, sure, but doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or speak out about their value. Is CMMG claiming to have test fired these weapons before sending them to customers? You'd think that if they were actually testing them, they'd notice SpacemanSpiff's weapon was doubling.

    So in my mind, a carbine that works but costs more still "beats the price" of a carbine that costs less but doesn't work. I really don't care if a gun is covered in dings: they will get there eventually. I'd rather have a scratched up, dented, ugly carbine that costs more but functions perfectly than a cheaper, prettier carbine that may or may not function.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    I never really understood that sentiment when it comes to a piece like this. I'm not trying to pick on you, it's just that your quote perfectly sums up my confusion.

    In my mind, the primary value of a tool is that it functions. If a tool does not work, or does not work reliably, it has little to no value. So far, the people who are speaking out about the great value of these guns (including those links to other forums), are mostly speaking of their aesthetic value.

    By my count, we have two posters so far with trigger time on one of these guns (unless I mistakenly glazed over others). One had 1,000 rounds without problems before passing the gun off. One, who purchased his more recently, discovered major malfunctions (of a dangerous nature) in the FCG when he was just into his first magazine.

    A tiny sample size for this particular gun, sure, but doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or speak out about their value. Is CMMG claiming to have test fired these weapons before sending them to customers? You'd think that if they were actually testing them, they'd notice SpacemanSpiff's weapon was doubling.

    So in my mind, a carbine that works but costs more still "beats the price" of a carbine that costs less but doesn't work. I really don't care if a gun is covered in dings: they will get there eventually. I'd rather have a scratched up, dented, ugly carbine that costs more but functions perfectly than a cheaper, prettier carbine that may or may not function.
    I agree, I would rather spend the money for a decent reliable rifle. I went on other peoples responses to their company so I'll learn first hand. The bargin bin rifle is a present but I did order from CMMG their lower and a 16" midlength upper. Over all the only real complain I heard, other than here on this thread, was the wait time. And it seems theres wait times every where. Beleive me, I won't be cheap dressing it out, but was trying to get the most out of my money and have a reliable firearm. I'm altogether new to the AR platform but not new to guns in any way, this would be my 15th gun, so I hope I interpude all the input from the forums I read correctly. If not I'll make sure to inform everyone about my bad luck, and ask for help to fix it.

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