Gear loadout pics and descriptions

[munch520]

Speaking of medical. I need to get some. Was looking at the Dark Angel kit and the ITS kit, or is there another company I should look at?

I've got ITS' in an ATS tear away pouch and feel it's pretty comprehensive.

[Arctic1]

Speaking of medical. I need to get some. Was looking at the Dark Angel kit and the ITS kit, or is there another company I should look at?

Just looked at the content of the two, and they both look like good options for plug and play kit. They are in accordance with current TCCC protocol, which is an important factor when choosing gear, in my opinion.

[ZoneOne]

To those of you claiming that you don't need training on a TQ or pressure bandage. I hope you are not serious, as this is 1) totally faulty advice and 2) potentially dangerous.

A couple of reasons why you need training on TQ use:

1) Indications for use
2) Where to place TQ on pt.
3) How to use your specific brand of TQ
4) Dangers of incorrect use of TQ
5) To become fast and effective at applying TQ to your own arms and legs, as well as patients' extremities

And using a BP cuff as an example to illustrate how tight a TQ needs to be? In my experience it is not that easy. There is extreme risk of patients trying to remove TQ's in the field from the pain experienced by the TQ. That's how tight it needs to be. That is why we stress reassesment of TQs during field care.

If a person is untrained in TQ use, the higher the risk that they will apply the TQ incorrectly, and consequently they won't achieve hemorrhage control. Worst case the incorrect application results in a venous tourniquet that increases bleeding, as well as the risk of compartment syndrome, in the affected limb distal to the TQ. If the pt survives the blood loss, the result can be nerve damage due to insiffucient blood supply.

If you disagree, try running a few CUF scenarios with your guys, and see how effective they are at applying TQ's.

First aid training is not something to be taken lightly. This includes practical training and knowledge of your medical gear.

I completely agree with the poster to wait carrying a TQ until he has received proper training.

Primum non nocere

My 2 cents....

On second thought - Agreed. In my statement I was operating under the assumption that most have a good concept of it's use. I was thinking a specific TQ class or training session dedicated to a TQ shouldn't be required.... But last time we had guys train in using them, the majority weren't familiar with them enough to be effective.

So....... knowledge on its use and how to operate it is definitely required. Either by a course that covers a variety of first aid topics or one specifically for a TQ.

We were always told to keep cranking on the windlass until the bright red stops. I love how the CATs actually have a little white tag for marking time, like you'll be able to get a pen on that in the real world. ;-)

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

I've got ITS' in an ATS tear away pouch and feel it's pretty comprehensive.

I'll have to check it out when we get together.

[ra2bach]

re: need for a TQ - I don't care if help (level I trauma care) is just minutes away - arterial bleeding needs dealt with in seconds. to say an ambulance is going to be johnny-on-the-spot would be cold comfort if I was watching blood fountaining out of me.

re: training - I was being simplistic when I counseled against training. this is a cop, with basic first aid training and emergency help close to the situation. I assumed he was talking about advanced training but with apologies to medical professionals, this isn't rocket science. I have had training recently but it was not significantly different than what I got when I got my Boy Scout merit badge. these things are also kind of self-evident as to how much pressure is needed - tighten till blood stops flowing. as I remember it, it was uncomfortably tight. given Karma's statement that professional help is very close by, it may not need to be perfect, there may still be distal pulse, but anything which restricts blood loss is better than nothing at this point.

but more importantly, the training he needs could be gotten in a 5 minute conversation with an EMT and some self practice. as a cop in circumstances wearing/needing hard armor, I would think this would be a priority. his comments shows he's always assuming one type of scenario where he'll take a round and there will be others to immediately take care of him. I'm able to envision dozens of other situations where this is not the case - an active shooter where he is alone or goes down/is trapped in the zone of fire, etc.. in this case, the ability to administer self-aid would be critical.

I just don't understand the reluctance to carry one based on his rationale. and if training is as critical as all are making it out to be, why the hell hasn't he gotten it yet if his job puts him in situations which require armor??? seems like his agency would have minimum reqs for anyone wearing armor to include this, no?

and maybe most importantly, I always thought the purpose of an IFAK or other medical equipment carried on the person was to be used on the individual - either by themselves or by another person giving aid. I don't believe most of the people needing NPAs or chest needles would be self administering but they are universally included in kits...

[Arctic1]

and maybe most importantly, I always thought the purpose of an IFAK or other medical equipment carried on the person was to be used on the individual - either by themselves or by another person giving aid. I don't believe most of the people needing NPAs or chest needles would be self administering but they are universally included in kits...

TQ's are meant to be used by yourself or others, on you in case of injury requiring a TQ. As a general rule you do not use your own TQ to treat a casualty, reinforcing the need for a unit SOP on TQ placement on gear so that they are easily located, even in the dark.

Remaining first aid gear in IFAK is not supposed to be self administered, ref NPA or needle decompression (tension pneumos take time to develop anyways, so it is not an immediate concern), but is meant to be used on you by others rendering first aid -> buddy aid.

re: need for a TQ - I don't care if help (level I trauma care) is just minutes away - arterial bleeding needs dealt with in seconds. to say an ambulance is going to be johnny-on-the-spot would be cold comfort if I was watching blood fountaining out of me.

Not that I disagree with the premise that massive bleeding needs to be dealt with quickly, but it takes time to bleed out.

A severed femoral artery will initially bleed at a rate of 1000ml/minute. After only 15 seconds, the rate will have slowed to 250ml/minute by the compensating mechanisms of the body.

re: training - I was being simplistic when I counseled against training. this is a cop, with basic first aid training and emergency help close to the situation. I assumed he was talking about advanced training but with apologies to medical professionals, this isn't rocket science. I have had training recently but it was not significantly different than what I got when I got my Boy Scout merit badge. these things are also kind of self-evident as to how much pressure is needed - tighten till blood stops flowing. as I remember it, it was uncomfortably tight. given Karma's statement that professional help is very close by, it may not need to be perfect, there may still be distal pulse, but anything which restricts blood loss is better than nothing at this point.

but more importantly, the training he needs could be gotten in a 5 minute conversation with an EMT and some self practice. as a cop in circumstances wearing/needing hard armor, I would think this would be a priority. his comments shows he's always assuming one type of scenario where he'll take a round and there will be others to immediately take care of him. I'm able to envision dozens of other situations where this is not the case - an active shooter where he is alone or goes down/is trapped in the zone of fire, etc.. in this case, the ability to administer self-aid would be critical.

This is a field I feel very strongly about, so I apoligize if I come across as a tad bit lecturing.

1) True, applying TQ it isn't rocket science. Hell, I think a cric is a pretty easy procedure as well, so no need to practice that either, right? Just issue a scalpel, a trach tube, a syringe and some forceps and you're good to go? How come a defining characteristic of most guys who are extremely skilled at shooting, is the grasp and mastery of the fundamentals? The basics of marksmanship. Yet this is somehow not applicable to first aid training?

Keep in mind that MOST of the criticism and skepticism towards the use of TQ's on the battlefield by medical professionals 20 years ago, stemmed from their experience in treating injured who were treated in the field with improvised TQ's. The survival rate was extremely poor, because haemorrhage control was not achieved, so patients succumbed to irreversible shock.

This impression certainly won't change if we take TQ training lightly, and end up killing pt's.

2) If there is a distal pulse, that is not "better than nothing". It is actually worse than nothing. The only thing you have achieved is to stop venous return, not arterial flow, ie you have not achieved haemorrhage control. This is called a venous tourniquet, and can KILL the pt, as it INCREASES the bleed.

3) If you really think that all it takes is a 5 min conversation from an EMT and some self practice, to be able to successfully apply a TQ on a casualty, then you clearly don't prioritize your medical skills enough.

Would you let a basically untrained individual apply a TQ to your limb if you recieved an injury requiring one?

I just don't understand the reluctance to carry one based on his rationale. and if training is as critical as all are making it out to be, why the hell hasn't he gotten it yet if his job puts him in situations which require armor??? seems like his agency would have minimum reqs for anyone wearing armor to include this, no?

I would wager a guess, based on our civilian guidlines, that TQ use/fielding isn't as widespread among non-mil organizations as it is in the military realm. Reference my previous mention of the skepticism.

[SWATcop556]

Guys we have a med subforum. Lets take this convo there re TQs.

This is a gear PIC thread. Thanks.

[tntrapper]

My set up is a paca level 3 a vest with a blackhawk load bearing vest over it with canteen,med pouch,4 pistol mag pouch,and three rifle mag pouch,with a water bladder on the back...i would post pictures but they wont upload off my hone

[Derek33]

After test runs ive piece by piece moved more from my belt to my banshee pc. I plan to compliment this PC with a gcode mule and costa ludas hsgi drop mag carrier

[CoryCop25]

-Emdom MM inner belt (I absolutely LOVE this belt!)
-HSGI outer belt
-Eagle Pistol double mag pouch (I like it because I can just unsnap it to remove it and put the larger pouch on for the Glock 21. I was thinking about switching to a pair of the ITW Fast Mag pouches but I don't know too much about them.)
-Kydex flashlight pouch for Surefire 6Z.
-Kydex mag pouch for Surefire 60 round mag. (This pouch will also hold any 30 round mag)
-Kydex 30 round mag pouch
-Eagle dump pouch
-CAT TQ on a BFG TQ now strap
-Smith & Wesson knife in a Kydez pouch. (The knife is thin enough to dig around the ejection port of an M4 if necessary.)
-Safariland UBL with a QLS 22
-Gerber multitool with Kydex pouch
- Safariland 6280 holsters with Safariland QLS 19s attached.

I really do not deviate much from my Glock 22 for teaching (issued gun) and my Glock 17 for being a student at classes, but I like to have the option of switching out different handguns and having the ability of keeping mags and holsters in the same location.
The holster for the PPQ was the only one I could find and I have yet to locate one that was WML bearing. The holster for the Glock 21 will also fit the M&P 45 MID.