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Thread: Weapon failures failed for US troops death

  1. #11
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    I am unsure of the usefulness of speculation based upon this article.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rharris2163 View Post
    This is a training and fire discipline issue. "Spay and Pray" only serves to deplete ammo supplies. You cannot miss fast enough to change the outcome of the battle.
    I agree, there is still to many of our soldiers that don't get the proper training, I would like to know more specifics on this report before i start making assumptions.
    Another former Marine already brought the point that most of our weapons training revolves to much around a rifle qualification course.
    We should provide more realistic training for our troops and make them perform emergency reloads, soft and Hard malfunctions under stress.
    Last edited by Looey; 10-11-09 at 13:21.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Katar View Post
    I am unsure of the usefulness of speculation based upon this article.

    Could not possibly agree more.

    Not that Sam made a mistake in posting, but to say that 90% of our troops support the weapon and to also clarify the lack of needed personnel, then add overheated barrels in the mix...

    I think it was written from a poor perspective.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safetyhit View Post
    Not that Sam made a mistake in posting, but to say that 90% of our troops support the weapon and to also clarify the lack of needed personnel, then add overheated barrels in the mix...

    I think it was written from a poor perspective.
    Sam posting the article for information purposes is just fine. Speculating on the actual fight that occurred and the role that the M4 carbine and other US issued weapons played is pretty pointless without first hand or trusted second-hand info.

  5. #15
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    I have a hard time believing the barrels got WHITE hot.


    Ive participated in ranges where we had to get rid of ammo....tens of thousands of rounds...and put that ammo through SAW's to the tune of a few thousand rounds per gun in an hour of so, and the barrel didn't get anywhere near white hot. This was 3 shooters per gun...as soon as the first person was done the 2nd got behind the gun and shot until we were through the ammo. There is a video on youtube of some people putting over 800 rounds through an M60 in one giant linked belt and it ran through that just fine. I know thats under controlled conditions and on a range....not a dirty battlefield....but it does give an idea of what a gun can do.


    Like it or not the Army stresses cleaning routines that do not benefit reliability. A clean dry weapon is what you are taught for inspection purposes. And people keep their guns that way so its easy to clean instead of it being properly lubed. Almost every failure I saw was fixed with lube being applied. In Iraq part of the time I was at an ECP, and we had a fixed position with an SAW. I purposely kept a bottle of lube just because the shift before me would never lube the weapon used for duty that day, and Id have to lube it at the start of my shift. If they actually had to use the gun it probably would have failed on them.

  6. #16
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    If I had to bet why the SAW locked-up, I would not be suprised if a popped primer was in there somewhere.
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  7. #17
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    AW fire does not automatically mean "spray and pray". Just because every round doesn't hit an actual human being doesn't mean it doesn't have a critical role on the battlefield. Having been on the receiving and sending side i can say that AW fire is absolutely an effective/essential tool in a firefight. I would question anybody's tactical experience and knowledge that couldn't see the advantages of having AW support in any fight whether that fight be in the mountains or in the house (yes, AW's are used in the house and work). agree or disagree....just my two cents.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by westcoastfrog View Post
    AW fire does not automatically mean "spray and pray". Just because every round doesn't hit an actual human being doesn't mean it doesn't have a critical role on the battlefield. Having been on the receiving and sending side i can say that AW fire is absolutely an effective/essential tool in a firefight. I would question anybody's tactical experience and knowledge that couldn't see the advantages of having AW support in any fight whether that fight be in the mountains or in the house (yes, AW's are used in the house and work). agree or disagree....just my two cents.
    suppression fire keeping BG's heads down while other unit members move is one use that comes to mind, not that I have any experience, these Taliban might just keep coming, calm cool accurate fire is still probably the best, I am sure it's hard to stay calm when your getting assaulted on three fronts, with mortars, rocket propelled grenades and automatic weapons though. I would like to think I would be Rambo like if there but most likely shitting myself, would hope I could at least return some fire. Sucks it seems we did not have the high ground either

  9. #19
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    Thanks Safety and Katar. Like I added at the beginning of my post, they gave no indication of the exact type or cause of failures. I posted it as a general information, it's interesting to read the media's take on technical info and as the title said, blaming the death of the soldiers partly or indirectly on the guns. We shouldn't speculate on what happened, we weren't there.

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Thanks Safety and Katar. Like I added at the beginning of my post, they gave no indication of the exact type or cause of failures. I posted it as a general information, it's interesting to read the media's take on technical info and as the title said, blaming the death of the soldiers partly or indirectly on the guns. We shouldn't speculate on what happened, we weren't there.
    Agree.

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