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Thread: Weapon failures failed for US troops death

  1. #31
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    the whole new rifle is a solution looking for a problem IMO. The m16/m4 are great weapons IMO, I think we(the MIl) should switch to a mid length system to reduce stress on the op systems. Or upgrade to piston guns maybe.

    But before we go and spend millions of dollars on new weapons, how about we update our training standards?
    How about we get platoon sgts and cmdrs on board with wpns maint. and fighting with a gun, not firing on a rifle range?
    how about we ditch the armory inspections with q tips and cotton patches before turn in?
    But Im just a lowly grunt, what do I know right
    I think the Marine Corps is attempting to go in the right direction with tables 1, 2 and 3. But is still missguided, and needs to make training overall more dynamic and fluid, stop running ranges and get out service members in a fighting mindset for chistsake!
    I could go on and on about this, it drives me absolutely nuckin futs to see dipshits using a steel cleaning rod to clean the crown! just to appease the armorers who are appeasing the xos, the mothafreakin crown with a steel rod!!!!

    and to reemphasize the whole lube issue, run your damn gun wet!

    ok, rant over.
    Men acquire a particular quality by constantly acting a particular way. We become just by performing just actions, temperate by performing temperate actions, brave by performing brave actions-Aristotle

    The wise man sees in the misfortune of others what he should avoid-Marcus Aurelius

    For these things give thanks at nightfall:
    The day gone, a guttered torch,
    A sword tested, the troth of a maid,
    Ice crossed, ale drunk- Havamal

  2. #32
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    If a solider says he weapon failed, I'm inclined to believe him

    The questions being how were the weapons maintained, and what was their overall condition. If they were in a state of disrepair after 5 years of hard frontline service, than someone higher up should get their asshole reamed.

    However, I'm a full supporter of evaluating all current weapon systems and finding the highest performing, least maintenance intensive weapon on the planet and giving it to our military.

    If the M4 was the end all be all, there would have been no COTS purchase of the HK416, SOCOM SPR-V trials or SCAR solicitation. Clearly some SF operators are seeing a deficiency
    Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
    What Happened to the American dream? It came true. You're looking at it.

  3. #33
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    I believe the temperature of the area of operations had an effect on the barrel over heating and of course lack of lube. I think we need to finally move onto newer weapon systems and practices. I believe it would help save lives in these sitautions. I can only hope events like this help change the military's practices.

  4. #34
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    Sounds like they got a bunch of crappy ammo.
    If you aren't armed when you take a dump in your own home then your opinion on what is a practical daily carry weapon isn't interesting to me.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by variablebinary View Post
    If a solider says he weapon failed, I'm inclined to believe him

    The questions being how were the weapons maintained, and what was their overall condition. If they were in a state of disrepair after 5 years of hard frontline service, than someone higher up should get their asshole reamed.

    However, I'm a full supporter of evaluating all current weapon systems and finding the highest performing, least maintenance intensive weapon on the planet and giving it to our military.

    If the M4 was the end all be all, there would have been no COTS purchase of the HK416, SOCOM SPR-V trials or SCAR solicitation. Clearly some SF operators are seeing a deficiency
    Ok not that I don't like the latest and greatest because I do. If his M-4 barrel got white hot which I do not believe but lets just say that it did. Do tell what shoulder fired weapon other than a 40 watt plasma rifle is expected to function with the barrel white hot?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Our SAW's ran best when nearly dripping with CLP. If they were lightly lubed (if at all) it probably wouldn't make it through the first belt. They are weapons that LOVE generous application of lube IME. Once lubed they ran very well.


    Again most of the failures I saw on mil guns was lube related or lack thereof.



    You also have to look at the context of the situation. Not only is "clean and dry" ingrained into people [for inspection purposes]....but I also remember all the BS about VERY light lube to keep dirt and dust from sticking to the weapon. Some tests were done, and even in dusty conditions running the gun wet is best. But people were still doing the whole "dry lube" and light lube thing because that information didn't get distributed well enough. This can wreak havoc on a unit if you have a leader telling all their soldiers to do that as well. You have a squad or platoon's worth of guns improperly lubed and can result in these types of situations with multiple weapon failures during an engagement.
    Yep, agreed. I carried a SAW for a year and a half and they failed miserably at CAX when they weren't dripping wet.

    Jay

  7. #37
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    ......
    Last edited by MIKE G; 05-09-17 at 00:31.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Bell View Post
    Sounds like they got a bunch of crappy ammo.
    The Steyr AUG changes a barrel in 30 seconds. And the part you hang on to, in order to do that, does not transfer heat. The Israeli Tabor, bull pup, designed for dusty dry theater? Like IRAQ/Afganiston...Hullo, need a change? We do. Uses M16/M4 magazines as well.

    If you get a really dirty gas piston on the AUG, open it up, big difference in gas piston operation, a wee short sharp whack on the gas piston, not buckets of cruddy gas spewing in to the open action? Maybe some old M16 ammo from the far east? Oh yes, the AUG has 42 round magazines as well as 30s, and because it is a bullpup, is close to the body..

  9. #39
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    Blah Blah Blah,

    30min TIC, fired 12 mags...

    WTF are you shooting at -- shoot less, aim more

    The peanut gallery here that has not been in combat should STFU.
    Kevin S. Boland
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  10. #40
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    The Soldiers who's M4s turned "white hot" probably miss identified what was actually going on. A.) They probably never ran it harder than what he did in that battle. B.) It would have melted if it was actually "white hot". The color change would be dramatic, especially if they were relatively new dark gray barrels. My barrels take on a greyish white hue, when I run them hard. I bet his stayed that color, well after the battle. Mine does too until I wipe them down with an oily cleaning rag. The barrel of my painted krylon (with several coats of paint) 6920, did the same thing today, bled right through, white, until I wiped it down. Then the color was restored.
    Last edited by RogerinTPA; 10-11-09 at 23:00.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

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