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Thread: KAC SR-15 vs. BCM Middy

  1. #21
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    Getting a SR-15 upper and pulling the URX off to sell might be an option for you. We are working to make the URX install disassembly tool more avail and priced for volume sale. I think once you had the SR-15 upper you might learn to like the URX. Knowing you will have the option to purchase the tool might give you that comfort factor you are looking for. The real solution is a factory bbl/bolt replacement program which will solve the real problem of how to service a SR-15 when the bbl needs to be replaced. Most shooters will ever even achieve that point. Remember with an average ammo price of .30 a round that is $6000 worth of ammo . Three times the price of the rifle.
    Last edited by III; 10-13-09 at 21:53.
    C Reed Knight III
    Knight's Armament Co.
    http://www.knightarmco.com/

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezboy View Post
    Yes, you do need an expensive barrel nut wrench and receiver vice to remove and install the URX handguard. However, there really is no need to. If you change the barrel on your rifle, you will have to change the bolt as well since only certain KAC barrels have the barrel extension. If you don't want the mid length 16" barrel in the first place, the rifle either isn't for you or you can sell the complete upper and recoup your investment.
    Dustin
    I guess I could leave it alone, but I have rifle ADD and am always changing stuff.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by III View Post
    Getting a SR-15 upper and pulling the URX off to sell might be an option for you. We are working to make the URX install disassembly tool more avail and priced for volume sale. I think once you had the SR-15 upper you might learn to like the URX. Knowing you will have the option to purchase the tool might give you that comfort factor you are looking for. The real solution is a factory bbl/bolt replacement program which will solve the real problem of how to service a SR-15 when the bbl needs to be replaced. Most shooters will ever even achieve that point. Remember with an average ammo price of .30 a round that is $6000 worth of ammo . Three times the price of the rifle.
    Maybe. I think that if I were to redeploy and have the option of a personally owned upper (like the first time around) I might grab an SR-15 upper. Barring that, its capabilities aren't worth the added cost for my current needs.

  4. #24
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    I've got both rifles and they are hard to compare really. The BCM line is much closer to the TDP than the KAC rifle is but the KAC rifle goes beyond the standard spec by a pretty wide margin.

    The KAC rifle is very nice. The list of parts on it is very impressive with the following:
    2 Stage KAC trigger
    URX (with a built in BUIS, multiple sling attachment points)
    600 M rear BUIS
    SOPMOD stock
    KAC trigger guard
    Lo Pro gas block
    Ambi-lower (I'm still not 100% decided on this - it is nice but it is not the standard - you end up learning different techniques with it)
    3x KAC panels
    KAC barrel
    E3 bolt and extension

    In my opinion - probably not worth a lot - the KAC is probably one of the most tricked out factory produced guns out there. The pistol grip is about the only standard piece of equipment on the thing.

    So far accuracy has been good from it. Not to the level of a gun set up specifically for accuracy but is well above average. It also has a great feel to it - it is light weight and balances well.

    The BCM gun is a great opinion closer to "the standard" AR - no real bells and whistles just a plain great shooting rifle. There is nothing wrong with the rifle and if you wanted to set it up similar to the KAC E3 it could be done but would take time, money and extra effort.

    I'd love to see a factory KAC SBR with the folding FSB, 10.5 to 12.5" barrel - medium contour with dimples, carbine URX and non-ambi lower.

    Spooky

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spooky130 View Post
    So far accuracy has been good from it. Not to the level of a gun set up specifically for accuracy but is well above average. It also has a great feel to it - it is light weight and balances well.
    I completely agree with this statement. I've owned my SR-15 for coming on 5 months now, and have already put about 5000 rounds through it, 2000 during a magpul class where the gun didn't skip a beat. In fact in all the time I've had the gun it's only double fed once, and that was from a friend's crappy reloaded ammo.

    The gun is a tack driver, but what really surprised me was how light it was, it almost felt like a toy the first time I picked it up. Meaning that it just felt fake somehow, it's that light. It's also an extremely durable, streamlined, upper, and removing the URXII would (IMHO) be a disservice to how well thought out the rifle is now.

    I'm almost certain I'll never submit the gun to the punishment that would take the gun to the limits of its tolerances, but it's nice to know I have those capabilities in the rifle.
    "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

  6. #26
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    The only things that suprised me in a not-so-good way was the GB was set screwed instead of pinned and my barrel didn't have much of a muzzle crown at all. I'll reserve judgement until I can get it out to the range and see how the gun does on paper.
    S/F

    Al

    "Hold on to your hate, it helps you stay focused"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR0GMAN View Post
    The URX is one of the lightest rails out there. It's advantages are it's light weight, sleek and slim design, multiple QD sockets, and integrated front sight.

    Ohh, and it's KAC
    According to rob_s' chart on rails, the URX is one of the heavier rails. The midlength URX is about 2.5 ounces heavier than a comparable Larue and the rifle length URX is 6 ounces heavier than a DD Lite rifle length.

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...DQ&output=html
    Last edited by parishioner; 10-14-09 at 02:00. Reason: link

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jman4427 View Post
    According to rob_s' chart on rails, the URX is one of the heavier rails. The midlength URX is about 2.5 ounces heavier than a comparable Larue and the rifle length URX is 6 ounces heavier than a DD Lite rifle length.

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...DQ&output=html

    Those are the weights of the old URX's without the integrated front sight, and those weights included 3 KAC 11-rib panels.

    The weights of the new URX's are 13.448 oz. for the mid-length and 16.4 for the rifle length. That includes the integrated front sight.

    The Larue 12" and the DD Lite 12" weigh in at 16.3 oz. and 14.0 oz. respectively. Add a 1.5 oz. Troy front sight to both of those and the Larue is now heavier than the URX, with the DD Lite weighing 0.9 oz. lighter than the URX.

    This is why I said the URX is one of the lightest.
    Last edited by FR0GMAN; 10-14-09 at 16:37. Reason: weights

  9. #29
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    Some of you may know that I wrote an article for SWAT last year on the KAC SR15 pre-production gun that Trey was nice enough to send me (yes, I eventually had to send it back). AFAIK the only effective difference between that gun and the production guns is the Ambi lower.

    First, I think most people would be surprised by the weight. I have a Colt 6520 ("pencil" barrel) that I've converted to a flattop, added a DD rail (which is one of the lightest you can buy), a set of Troys, etc. Here they are similarly configured.




    Second, there are things that set the KAC apart that many people are not aware of. The longer-than-midlength gas system, E3 bolt and barrel extension, the dual spring extractor, and the hammer forged barrels are probably the best of the sometimes overlooked features. These are all designed to increase the life of the firearm, and when you price something you need to price it as a life-cycle if you actually intend to use it.






    Finally, when pricing these things you need to make sure you're comparing apples:apples. You need to start with a BCM BFH 16" w/ DD Lite 12.0 at $949 (note that BCM does sell their uppers with the KAC URX but it's $300 more. From there you need to add a BCM BCG for $150, a charging handle for $20+/-, and a set of MBUS (since we're going on the cheap) for $100. That gets you to $1220 for a complete upper.

    Moving to the lower, you're going to start with a BCM at $330 without stock, add an Emod for $120 (going for that "same function, reduced cost, the SOPMOD is another $80), and a Geissele AR15 Super Semi-Automatic Trigger for $170. That brings you to $620 for the complete lower and up to $1840 for the complete gun. Bearing in mind that you still aren't getting the E3 features.

    I found a KAC SR15 listed on Gunsamerica for $2200, which is a $350 premium over the package above. What you're getting for that premium is the E3 bolt features, the ambi lower controls, and what is probably a lighter package overall. Put a set of Troy BUIS and the SOPMOD stock on the BCM and you narrow that gap even more.

    Yes, you can assemble the BCM piece by piece and buy the parts as the money comes available. It also can be ordered in one of 20 different flavors, of you can install other rails like the TRX extreme or others according to your tastes and needs.

    The other thing that the BCM has going for it, in my recently found appreciation for non-railed guns, is that it can be had in a more basic configuration with plastic handguards, etc. and can be had in the non-hammer forged variety, if you don't need that functionality, for a lower cost.

    I don't think you can go wrong with either option. If you can make use of the rail system, light weight, E3, and ambi features of the KAC then it is probably worth the premium. If not, it's probably a better value to buy the BCM and configure it the way you want it.

  10. #30
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    I think Rob pretty much summed it up.

    On the gas block: Our bbls are ground and gas blocks honed for a press fit. You will not find a better fitting gas block in the industry. They will not just come off even with the screws removed. Also this aids in sealing the gas system.

    On accuracy: The chrome chamber is what really effects this . I have seen most of these rifles to shoot under 1.5".Some shoot well under an 1". We are not pushing this as a match grade rifle and are building this gun to be ran hard.

    On price: Retail is 2200. I have seen them go for 2000 and under as the market cools.

    On weight: The SOPMOD stock is pretty heavy bare gun against bare gun I think we have a really good mixture of balance , durability, and lt wt.

    I'm sure the next question will be why don't you stake the buffer tube. We chose to loctite the buffer tube instead.
    C Reed Knight III
    Knight's Armament Co.
    http://www.knightarmco.com/

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