CQB Quick Sighting - Green Laser vs. UltraDot Pan AV

[C4IGrant]

Thanks KellyTTE,
Yeah, unfortunately I'm on a strict budget, especially with a new addition to the family coming along in 7 months. The ACOG 4x32 was hard enough to save for. I'm looking for a VERY economical solution in CQB.
I can understand why an operator would prefer a RD sight to a laser to prevent position detection, but hogs aren't that smart and don't spook that easily with Red or Green light..... I was trying to keep my CQB sight within $100-$200.......

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check out the C3 as well.

The cheapest setup for CQB is a Tritium front sight post and a flashlight.


C4

[C4IGrant]

My opinion is that visible lasers are great for CQB and home defense (indoor and cramped) other than that the RD would fulfill more of your roles.

How so? What CQB training have you had that would lead you to this determination???


C4

[Alaskapopo]

I have not played with a laser on a carbine. However on a handgun they are significantly faster. I ran some drills on the range with my Wilson with just the irons and then with the laser. I found I was approximately 20% faster with the laser vs Irons on the handgun with better hits at 25 yards. I also shot a IDPA match with my laser on (my score did not count because its illegal in IDPA) as an experiment. My scores on each stage were a tad faster than normal with good hits. It was an indoor range. Lasers have a purpose. On carbines they are nice because they can allow you to aim the weapon when you otherwise would not be able to. Ever train on clearing tubes. Such as a school bus or a jet. You can not clear the seat backs unless you point shoot. You have to take the rifle off your shoulder. A laser allows you to still aim your weapon. After doing 10 years of building searches I have found lots of times when a laser has come in handy.
Pat

[C4IGrant]

I have not played with a laser on a carbine. However on a handgun they are significantly faster. I ran some drills on the range with my Wilson with just the irons and then with the laser. I found I was approximately 20% faster with the laser vs Irons on the handgun with better hits at 25 yards. I also shot a IDPA match with my laser on (my score did not count because its illegal in IDPA) as an experiment. My scores on each stage were a tad faster than normal with good hits. It was an indoor range. Lasers have a purpose. On carbines they are nice because they can allow you to aim the weapon when you otherwise would not be able to. Ever train on clearing tubes. Such as a school bus or a jet. You can not clear the seat backs unless you point shoot. You have to take the rifle off your shoulder. A laser allows you to still aim your weapon. After doing 10 years of building searches I have found lots of times when a laser has come in handy.
Pat

Agree. A laser is a much have on a HG IMHO.


C4

[WillieFlo]

C4IGrant...Alaskapopo,
You guys both bring up very good points of consideration.

Thanks for the input guys! Very positive feedback from all of you. I appreciate it!

[Savior 6]

Ok, now I'm curious, all you guys rah-rah'ing lasers for CQB, anytime in a shoothouse or on duty with them or are these just memos from the "Sounds Like A Good Idea" Department? Outside of real life .mil IR use, and the movies you simply don't see a whole lot of 'professional' vis laser use.

So now I'm curious what you're relying on to make these recommendations?

A RDS is always going to be faster than an aiming laser.

Also remember that you have to treat a laser as you would a light (as it leads right back to you). Short burst's followed by you moving offline.



C4

How so? What CQB training have you had that would lead you to this determination???

C4

Agree. A laser is a much have on a HG IMHO.


C4

You guys sound like the types that have have to down others to raise yourselves. Admittedly it has been a long time since I have been in a shoot house at Ft. Lewis. And when taught, the front sight post and white lights typically sufficed, that is considering that it is backed with reflexive fire drills.
As the OP asked for opinions, I gave him mine. I think (that being an opinion) that having a laser, better yet laser/light combo would be the best option for indoors.
Since you have pointed out that your opinion is more valuable than mine, I will remind you, as with all opinions we have all heard the addage, "Opinions and assholes, everyone has 'em and they all stink." Even mine, even yours.

[KellyTTE]

You guys sound like the types that have have to down others to raise yourselves. Admittedly it has been a long time since I have been in a shoot house at Ft. Lewis. And when taught, the front sight post and white lights typically sufficed, that is considering that it is backed with reflexive fire drills.
As the OP asked for opinions, I gave him mine. I think (that being an opinion) that having a laser, better yet laser/light combo would be the best option for indoors.
Since you have pointed out that your opinion is more valuable than mine, I will remind you, as with all opinions we have all heard the addage, "Opinions and assholes, everyone has 'em and they all stink." Even mine, even yours.

I don't know about anyone else, believe me when I say Grant can speak for himself. I simply asked for non-specific quantification of everyone position. And lets not delve into the ad hominem bullshit, this isn't TOS.

[C4IGrant]

You guys sound like the types that have have to down others to raise yourselves.

Not seein it. Simple asked what your experience was w/ lasers in shoot houses.

Admittedly it has been a long time since I have been in a shoot house at Ft. Lewis. And when taught, the front sight post and white lights typically sufficed, that is considering that it is backed with reflexive fire drills.

So are you telling us that you have not run a laser OR RDS in a shoot house????

As the OP asked for opinions, I gave him mine. I think (that being an opinion) that having a laser, better yet laser/light combo would be the best option for indoors.
Since you have pointed out that your opinion is more valuable than mine, I will remind you, as with all opinions we have all heard the addage, "Opinions and assholes, everyone has 'em and they all stink." Even mine, even yours.

Have you read Rob_S's thread on "not all opinions being equal?"



C4

[Savior 6]

I simply asked for non-specific quantification of everyone position. And lets not delve into the ad hominem bullshit, this isn't TOS.

My apologies. Definately not TOS.

WillieFlo, IMO visible lasers fit very well in the definition of "point and shoot". Alaskapopo put it better when he explained the verstility of lasers in confined quarters. I believe you won't be happy until you have both (vis. laser and RDS) on your weapon. My suggestion was if you were to only get one, that the RDS would fulfill more of your desired roles.

[Alaskapopo]

My apologies. Definately not TOS.

WillieFlo, My suggestion was if you were to only get one, that the RDS would fulfill more of your desired roles.

I agree.