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Thread: Does it matter which lower you use ?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by militarymoron View Post
    that's not an accurate analogy. a bentley is a semi-custom, limited production vehicle. a colt lower (for example) is not a semi-custom, limited production item. it's a widely available item built to govt specs.
    a comparison of a military humvee (built to govt spec) to a chevy 1500 or F150 would be more accurate to this discussion.
    I suppose the same could be said for the HMMWV analogy. HMMWVs might be able to absorb particular types of damage well, but they're very very very finicky platforms. A F150 might not absorb anywhere near as many bullets, but it also doesn't eat gear reduction hubs and transfer cases like candy. 'Mil-Spec' in the case of the AM General HMMWV is pretty sad.

    Regardless, I think Sinister's point is very valid and I don't see any reason doubt his wisdom on the subject. How many lowers of ANY make has ANYONE on here worn out? Seriously, its a silly issue.
    Kelly H
    Yes, I know. No, I won't tell you.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyTTE View Post
    I suppose the same could be said for the HMMWV analogy.
    sure, if you want the argument to go on endlessly.

    what i said doesn't contradict sinister at all. are all lowers created equally in all aspects? no. do all the aspects matter when it comes to function? no. do the other aspects matter at all? yes, to some people; no, to some people. beyond function, it's personal preference.
    what we seem to be arguing about is the definition of the word 'quality' - if it pertains to aspects in addition to function.

  3. #33
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    My take on lowers in general is this...

    You're generally going to wind up with a carbine into which you have $1k-$1.5k invested. Given that even the cheapest lower is $100, and even the most expensive (billet and pricing based on rarity aside) are $200 at most. In the gran scheme of things from a financial standpoint, using a lower from a maker with a spotty reputation makes no sense to me. If DPMS, Oly, etc. can't get their complete guns right and choose to ignore the QA/QC process on complete guns, why would I want to safe $50 by using one of their lowers that may suffer from the same problem?

    I'm currently putting together my super-billy-badass top shelf AR. The upper alone retails for $1500, I'm putting a $250 stock on it, a $170 trigger in it, etc. I chose one of the Sully lowers from Defensive Edge for this project because I think it is one of the best quality lowers you can buy with some of the smartest manufacturing and machining methods I've seen. Know what the premium on that lower, over and above some of the hobby makers, was? $100 more. In a rifle that will ultimately weigh in at over $3-4k with optics and can, a $100 premium to get a lower that I KNOW is good and have confidence in, prior to registering it as an SBR, is worth it to me.

    (I am also assembling the lower complete with all parts and will test-fire with a non-NFA upper to check for function prior to filing the SBR paperwork. Trust, but verify.)

  4. #34
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    Rob- Sounds like a great gun. Can't wait for pics and range report.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6933 View Post
    Lowers are not lowers. A Model 1 Sales lower, or DPMS, is not the same as a Colt, LMT, Noveske, or DD lower. Only Colt has the TDP and when others build it gets into tolerance stacking, or, in the case of a very few, an even better product.
    Oh lord...
    You deserve the beating that you will soon get.

    A stripped lower is just a container to hold parts. Nothing more.
    So long as the lower receiver is in spec, it matters not who's roll mark is on the side.
    Fill it with good parts and it will run.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    A stripped lower is just a container to hold parts. Nothing more.
    So long as the lower receiver is in spec, it matters not who's roll mark is on the side.
    Fill it with good parts and it will run.
    Part in blue is the problem.

    I wouldn't trust any of the hobby makers to get the specs right.

    But in theory I agree with you, and I think that by and large these days 75% of the lowers are, on average, all about equal, and maybe 20% do something to put them over the top (like the Sully), and 5% do something to be thought of as complete shit (like the Carbon 15).

  7. #37
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    Yes, it does matter. It's called tolerance stacking. A lower can be in spec, which is in and of itself suspect since only Colt has the TDP, and just barely be in spec. I'd rather buy a Colt that is truly in spec. That's just me. But the argument that all lowers are the same is bull. If a manufacturer doesn't have access to the TDP, how can they be sure they are "as good as?" Reverse engineering isn't the same.

    Quality control. Not all companies have the same quality control. I think this is indisputable. What one company says is in spec, another may say is not. This is the most important aspect of calling a lower "in spec." I don't think most people on M4C are going to take a Mega, DPMS, Oly, RRA, or BM receiver over a Colt, DD, LMT, or Noveske.

    If were are talking internals as well, then no, they are not all the same.

    Why would I get a "deserved" beating for offering an honest(hopefully educated) opinion? Do you say "deserved" b/c you simply disagree? Could it be you represent Mega receivers?

    What it boils down to is: All lowers are not created equal.
    Last edited by 6933; 10-17-09 at 15:51.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6933 View Post
    Could it be you represent Mega receivers?.
    Your paranoia... is off the chart.

  9. #39
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    Everything Colt makes is golden; SP1.

    Enough said to dispel that line of crap.

  10. #40
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    I consider it IN SPEC when all the parts go together perfectly without any problems during installation.
    Then when I go to the range and it fires each and every time the trigger is pulled after thousands of rounds.
    That's how I can tell if it's IN SPEC or not.
    If it did not do all this I would consider it OUT OF SPEC. This is the best indicator or method I have.
    Last edited by the.2nd1; 10-17-09 at 17:37.

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