"That Guy" in EFR class

[ToddG]

I'm about 2/3 of the way through the American Red Cross Emergency First Responder program. This past Saturday, we had an incident in class. Hopefully, some of the experienced folks here can offer insight and advice.

History: "That Guy" is Indiana Jones, so nicknamed because he's clearly desperate to get out into the world and have some hairy adventures. He's already been through First Aid, CPR, and perhaps some other ARC programs. This is a guy who now has three bags full of medical gear in his trunk and has admitted that he's been "patrolling" some of the major highways in the Baltimore area. He claims he's stopped to help 200-300 people so far. This is the guy who is constantly shouting out answers to every question the teacher asks so we all know he's the smartest. This is the guy who interrupts the teacher to give other students direction during practicals. This is the guy whose neck I'm going to snap before the class is over.

Incident:

In the morning, we are taught how to backboard a potential spinal injury. During the exercises, Indiana scrapes his knuckles and begins to bleed rather profusely. Luckily, one of the students (a full time nurse) sees it immediately and tells him to back away. Indiana patches himself up, puts on a pair of rubber gloves, and continues with the class. We all felt ok with that.

In the afternoon, we do our first blind practical: team walks into the room, instructor is on the ground simulating multiple simultaneous injuries.

Instructor/victim/patient is also chewing gum. So during the "secondary survey" -- which Indiana Jones is doing -- he asks her to open her mouth, at which point he goes to remove the gum. She clearly tells him, gloves or no gloves, he's not sticking his bleeding hand into her mouth. While all this is going on, we've put her on the backboard, I've splinted her lower left leg, another student has splinted her right arm, etc.

So the teacher is basically immobilized and trying to watch what we're doing.

Indiana Jones, out of nowhere, stands up and while hovering over all of us, he takes off his gloves, removes the bandages from his hand, and "looks to see if he's still bleeding." Apparently, when the instructor said he couldn't put his hand in her mouth, he decided he should check to see if he was really still bleeding. Seriously.

So I happen to look up as he's doing this and yell "STOP" ... but he keeps on doing what he's doing. He manages to get some blood on the pants leg of the student holding stabilization at the head (we hadn't done the pads or head straps yet) before everyone else catches up to what's happening and he's made to go away.

We immediately get the instructor released from the straps and everyone takes a break to wash up and check themselves. When we come back, the instructor says we'll do another scenario and this time I'm to be the team leader. I flat out refuse to have Indiana Jones on my team. I then walk over to the backboard with the instructor and we check it for blood. Sure enough, there are a few small drops of blood on it. She puts on some gloves to clean it off but I suggest we skip the backboard for the scenario until someone can really disinfect it.

It was right about then that we realized Indiana Jones was re-bandaging himself back at the table he was sharing with another student, potentially contaminating not only the table but this other students' personal effects.

The instructor, realizing the entire situation was out of control, sent everyone home.

I spoke with her after class and she is trying to juggle the fact that Indiana is now all butt hurt (my words, not hers) with the fact that most of the rest of the class doesn't want to get within 10 feet of him. My advice -- and perhaps this was off base since this is way out of my lane -- was to treat Indiana like any other professional rescuer she would have dealt with while she was at Johns Hopkins or down post-Katrina or whatever. Would she have taken that guy aside and read him the riot act? I assume so.

So my real question is this, assembled medical experts: how much lime do I need to decompose a 300# body?

[Jay Cunningham]

Yikes.

Blood borne pathogens are nothing to trifle with. We had a guy disassembling a wooden pallet a few years back and a board with a long staple popped out and right into a big vein on his arm. Of course when he pulled it out we had a geyser. We tracked his blood trail across the operating deck into a small office where bystanders were standing around *eating pizza*. I got those morons out of there pretty quickly... "yes, I'd like pepperoni, mushrooms and hepatitis please"...

[Derek_Connor]

300lb Body needs 43.234lbs of Lime.

In all seriousness though, this guy does sound like darwin needs to pay him a visit.

On the flip side, and do not take this the wrong way, I am surprised the instructor cancelled the class for that day. While I would never sign up for someone bleeding on me, my clothes, any of my personal property, I'd assume there were 10+ people there for this class? All paying (or employer paid)? Thats alot of time off/scheduled out of office training etc that is now put off to another day.

Its a shame he couldn't have been dismissed for the asshat he was, and you guys could of used the proper universal precautions and continued on with the training.

[Alex F]

He weighs 300 pounds?!

[OPPFOR]

I crossed paths with a guy like this about a year ago. He was a large man, very book smart, very annoying, and could not stop talking about his CPR certification. He was trying to get over to Iraq as a contractor/operator with CPR certification.

Is his first name Pat/Patrick by any chance????

[ToddG]

Derek -- There are only six people in the class due to attrition, etc. I don't blame the instructor for cutting class short. Many of the other students were clearly agitated and she had her own issues to deal with ... she was, after all, the person who was strapped down to the board Indiana was bleeding on.

We have four more days of class and I'm confident we'll cover everything we need to.

Glock-Fu -- Names are withheld to protect the innocent and/or stupid.

[Brasilnuts]

Do you know a pig farmer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBvCPTK1MmY

[rhino]

Sounds like the guy needs some remedial instruction regarding bloodborne pathogens and universal precautions. He either doesn't understand as well as he believes, or he thinks the rules don't apply to him. Either one is unacceptable.

Someone probably needs to get into his face and tell him unequivocally that his behavior is unacceptable and that if he wants to continue, he needs to not only demonstrate that he understands the seriousness of potential contamination via blood. He also needs to confirm and demonstrate that he understands that yes, the rules do apply to him, and that he will adhere to the standard universal precaution procedures without exception.

I'd give him one and only one more chance.

[Derek_Connor]

Derek...

We have four more days of class and I'm confident we'll cover everything we need to.

Ahhh...that does help. Hopefully the pan out to be better days..

[FMF_Doc]

As an instructor I give them a little heart to heart about participation and standards of conduct in my class, after that I throw them out of the course.

As a student, even though I have been through some of the most advanced training the military medical establishment has to offer I still keep my mouth shut and participate in the class as if I don't know anything more than how to put on a band-aid.

It detracts from the learning of others and also makes some people less likely to take any further training.

Sounds like your instructor is not in control of their own class, too bad.

There will be a critique form for the course at the end, please fill it out and address any concerns you have. They are reviewed by the Chapter and National Offices to determine instructors fitness.