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Thread: Gas piston question

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    im glad you asked mr pilot,

    The main improvement comes from the self-regulating short-stroke gas-piston system. This system eliminates the venting of hot, carbon-laden gases into the receiver and bolt carrier group, eliminating the intensive cleaning of DI rifles.
    Eliminating? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    the bolt carrier group and associated springs are not subjected to the searing heat of the tapped gasses, this being one of the major causes of small parts failure. This means that gas piston rifles (LWRCI) are more reliable than DI guns.
    Are they? They don't have any separate issues to beware of?

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    Another benefit of a short-stroke gas-piston system is the improved handling characteristics of the weapon over the DI guns. Recoil is lighter and muzzle rise is greatly reduced.
    The extra weight out front doesn't make it swing slower?


    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    the short-stroke gas-piston system is only one of the improvements LWRCI has made. the rifles utilize cold hammer forged barrels made out of 41V45 steel alloy and treated with NiCorr (nitrocarberization) surface conversion .

    Cold hammer forging takes an oversized barrel blank, and using high pressure rotary hammers, compacts the barrel blank over a mandrel. This forms perfect rifling devoid of tool marks. It also compacts the molecular structure of the metal making it denser and stronger.

    These barrels can take a lot more use and abuse than a standard barrel before any degrading, proving more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used.

    the barrels are said to be good for 20,000 rounds. i dont think ill ever find this out. 6.8 ammo is really expensive right now.
    Because nobody else is offering cold hammer forged barrels? But then again it's like you said, he won't shoot out a regular barrel.

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    the 1 piece bolt carriers of M6 rifles are coated with nickel which nearly eliminates corrosion and provides increased lubricity.
    And you say that again, as though it's A)a problem, and B)not available for the direct gas guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    now let the hating begin!!!!
    Oh, so you said that purely to rile people up? I was just surprised that a walking talking LWRC advertisement existed on this board for that long without either disclosing who he was or getting banned.

    Maybe you're just enthusiastic about LWRC products. But by and large(especially amongst the older members,) much of that doesn't fly as either being important or valid.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoyguns View Post
    Hello. Great site. I am looking forward to purchasing a new AR 15 for general self defense/ plinking and because I like them in the next 2 months and need recommendations on POF p415-18 versus LWRC m6a3 in the 18 inch barrel. Two questions: What are your thoughts? 2. What are the other top 1 or 2 gas piston AR's out there? Thanks.
    If you have to ask then you really do not need one.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT-M4 View Post
    For all of the piston haters out there , it was just announced that HK beat out Colt and FN in the IAR competition for the Marine Corp.

    There must be something good about a Piston AR.
    Need a link to the news release...

  4. #34
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    there you have it, thats what i meant by let the hating begin. its only a matter of time for a thread about pistons to get hated on, on this site. fyi, i own a colt and lmt also.

    i try to help a guy out and give him some advise on which "piston" guns to look at and the thread gets hijacked by all the "old" piston haters.

    the question was which are the top 2 piston ar's out there. try to stay on topic. i gave him my "thoughts" on the subject thru my experiences.

    as soon as you saw a thread about piston ar's, your blood started to boil and you just couldnt hold back any longer. instant hijack. let that be a lesson to all you new members out there. if you are pro piston or even act like it, the pro DI's will want you banned.

    hopkins: yes it eliminates "intensive" cleanings. name some issues that they have with piston (lwrci) guns. do you have any exp. with one. i didnt think so. what di makers offer a 1 piece bcg? i said " let the hating begin" to warn "enjoy" of what was about to take place. i was right.

    c4: hey buddy, i think i would take the advice of someone who puts their life on the line with their weapon selection over a small time gun dealer who sits behind a desk and trys to sell "his" favorite guns. but i guess that in your mind a dea agent dont know shit about guns. keep punchin holes in paper sweetheart!!!!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    hopkins: yes it eliminates "intensive" cleanings. name some issues that they have with piston (lwrci) guns. do you have any exp. with one. i didnt think so. what di makers offer a 1 piece bcg? i said " let the hating begin" to warn "enjoy" of what was about to take place. i was right.
    First of all, I do have experience with some of your LWRC uppers. One would only lock back about 50% on semi auto and almost never on full auto. That's both PMAGS and USGI. If you weren't being a dick, you would have asked if I had any experience before assuming otherwise. I even plan on buying an LMT piston at some point in the future, with full knowledge that I have zero use for one and will not really reap any benefits.

    Also, did it not occur to you that I was referring to the extra lubricity of the bolt carrier which you were clearly implying was required for a reliable weapon?

    I don't "intensively" clean my rifles but about once a year. I shoot, lube, and repeat.

    So let's pretend that we have a complete LWRC rifle with zero issues. The only thing you can really point to is MAYBE not having to replace to bolt as often. But what other parts will you have to replace? Anyone have a link to Pat Rogers' data? Remember what round counts his carbines required service from LWRC?

    I'm not saying that pistons don't have a place. I'm not even saying that they aren't the wave of the future. I am saying that you should come with something more substantial than words that sound like they're straight out of a LWRC pamphlet.

    ETA: The shift key on your keyboard is not that mysterious. Use it and save us all a few headaches trying to read your post.
    Last edited by thopkins22; 11-05-09 at 01:41.

  6. #36
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    To answer the OP's question, if I was getting an 18" gun I would not get a gas piston at all. I would get a mid or rifle length DI (Noveske maybe) and call it a day. A piston rifles benefits is going to be largely wasted on such a long barrel and operating system. Of your two options though LWRC is the best choice.

    Stephen

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwingmaniac View Post
    there you have it, thats what i meant by let the hating begin. its only a matter of time for a thread about pistons to get hated on, on this site. fyi, i own a colt and lmt also.

    i try to help a guy out and give him some advise on which "piston" guns to look at and the thread gets hijacked by all the "old" piston haters.
    Just as an FYI, when you go into a thread and end your post by saying something like "let the hating begin" you are actually trolling. In the future, stick to the facts as you know them.

    I personally do not hate ANY piston guns. I think they have their place and when I find one that is designed from the ground up to be a piston gun (not shoe horning a piston into a DI gun) I will get one.

    At this point, the DI guns I build and shoot run perfectly. So what would a piston give me over a perfectly running gun? To add insult to injury, I only shoot suppressed SBR's. So by going to a suppressed piston gun, I would get carbon in the receiver and on the BCG, increased recoil, more weight and less accuracy. How does that help me????

    the question was which are the top 2 piston ar's out there. try to stay on topic. i gave him my "thoughts" on the subject thru my experiences.

    as soon as you saw a thread about piston ar's, your blood started to boil and you just couldnt hold back any longer. instant hijack. let that be a lesson to all you new members out there. if you are pro piston or even act like it, the pro DI's will want you banned.
    It is cool to like whatever you like. Just be realistic about what a Piston gun ACTUALLY gives you. Remember that there is no free lunch and there are down sides to everything.

    c4: hey buddy, i think i would take the advice of someone who puts their life on the line with their weapon selection over a small time gun dealer who sits behind a desk and trys to sell "his" favorite guns. but i guess that in your mind a dea agent dont know shit about guns. keep punchin holes in paper sweetheart!!!!

    You seem to believe that trigger pullers have technical knowledge on what makes a quality gun a quality gun. They do not. Most of them can barely field strip their weapons let alone speak technically about what works and why. This is based on the fact that we are an LE/Military based business that talks to cops and .mil guys about guns on a dailey basis.

    Just as an FYI to you, the DEA did NOT adopt the LWRC guns. There were simply approved for individual agent purchase. Keep in mind that the DEA also authorized the purchase of RRA AR's. Nuff said.


    Before some LWRC fan boy goes running back to them to say that we hate them, that just isn't the case. I know the guys at LWRC pretty well. I think that their piston AR's are some of the best out there and if I had to have one, I would choose their's or HK's.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 11-05-09 at 10:40.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen_H View Post
    To answer the OP's question, if I was getting an 18" gun I would not get a gas piston at all. I would get a mid or rifle length DI (Noveske maybe) and call it a day. A piston rifles benefits is going to be largely wasted on such a long barrel and operating system. Of your two options though LWRC is the best choice.

    Stephen
    Agree. A piston on an 18" gun is a wrong as two boys french kissing.



    C4

  9. #39
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    Question to the guys shooting piston guns on a consistent basis.

    Do you guys really feel as though there is less recoil and muzzle flip on these guns than on DI guns?

    Ive put quite a few rounds through a few different LWRC models and they all flipped more than my DI AR's.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsz View Post
    Question to the guys shooting piston guns on a consistent basis.

    Do you guys really feel as though there is less recoil and muzzle flip on these guns than on DI guns?

    Ive put quite a few rounds through a few different LWRC models and they all flipped more than my DI AR's.
    As another poster mentioned earlier, piston guns tend to be kind of front heavy anyway so I find their muzzle rise tends to be less than a comparable DI gun. I find the recoil to be about the same although I continually hear that some people feel that piston guns have more felt recoil. One of these days I'll identically equip an LWRC and DI gun and try and do a "Pepsi challenge" where the shooter is handed a weapon not knowing which is which and get some feedback.

    I like piston guns (LWRC specifically) over DI because I do all my shooting suppressed and all my regular use or training guns are <14.5" (usually I shot a 10.5" suppressed). If I had the ability, like Grant, to tune a DI gun to work ideally with a can I might try it, but I don't. The Noveske switchblock looks like a great option for someone who doesn't like the idea of a piston operated AR.

    I've got a total of 20,000+ rounds through 5 different LWRC's over the past 3 years and have been very satisfied with their performance. Their latest guns are some of the best built M16FOW carbines currently available, DI or piston.

    Stephen

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