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Thread: Bike lube and de-greaser?

  1. #11
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    Maybe so

    I can see where you are coming from Roklok but condoms were not made for our rifles and that doesn't stop infantrymen from covering their weapons whilst in the middle of a sandstorm in Iraq, bullets were meant to be fired but people still use the tips of them to disassemble their weapons and toothbrushes were not meant to clean the carbon off the internals of our AR's but that does not mean I am going to stop using one. At the end of the day lube is lube, it does not matter if it is KY or CLP if it works for your gun then use it because any lube is better than none.

    Floyd

  2. #12
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    For those finding gun-specific products coming up short... Can you elaborate on why? What are they failing to do? Where they're leaving you hanging? What systems you're running them in? Types of activities? Quantify your observations? That BreakFree and Hoppes disappoint is not surprising. Have you tried premium lubes and cleaners from folks like Slip, esp the EWL?

    Testing a lube on a 12ga pump is an option, but isn't terribly useful. Pumps can run dry, and run reasonably well that way.

    Some will read recommendations for other products and think it's a good idea to try that. Let's give them a bit more info to work with.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    For those finding gun-specific products coming up short... Can you elaborate on why? What are they failing to do? Where they're leaving you hanging? What systems you're running them in? Types of activities? Quantify your observations? That BreakFree and Hoppes disappoint is not surprising. Have you tried premium lubes and cleaners from folks like Slip, esp the EWL?

    Some will read recommendations for other products and think it's a good idea to try that. Let's give them a bit more info to work with.
    I think it is clear from everyone's posts that none of us have made engineering studies of the lubrication products discussed here. It is all just opinion. With extremely few exceptions, everything written on this forum is opinion, despite the bluster. And that is not limited to just this forum: Hard, substantive engineering data untainted by opinion or the goal of financial gain is as rare as hen's teeth; as unlikely as a politician that can't lie. So I will share my opinion, based on my experiences, but those that love Slip or whatever superlube of the month need to calm down, and test stuff for themselves, and develop their own opinion based on their own experience before piling on.

    Very few lubes still in use today were developed originally for guns. I can't think of one (no, Hoppe's No.9 is not a lube) but they might exist. Relatively speaking, the market for gun lubes is just too small to support the necessary R&D, not when the automotive, aerospace, marine, heavy equipment, mining, manufacturing, medical equipment, and many other well-financed and infinitely more profitable industries are able and willing to pour money and brainpower into developing the lubes they need specific to their industries, and when many of the lubes they develop work just fine in guns. The fact is, guns don't place heavy demands on lubes, not compared to a bulldozer or an airframe, or a compressor. The real problem with gun lubrication is people not using it. So clever people repackage and market these excellent lubes to the gun industry. Nothing wrong with that. But why wait?

    While not a lube, one example is Slip Carbon Killer. Take a wiff. It's citrus-base cleaner, something that has been around long before they used it on guns. The first time I used citrus cleaner was to clean stained concrete slabs. Another. MPro-7 is identical to a cleaner that has been around forever and was developed originally for cleaning india (carbon) ink off of pen nibs. They both work fine, but guns were not the original intended market (I can hear the guys at Slip screaming already). Take a look at FP-10. Do you think all the synthetic gun lubes on the market were developed specifically for your Remington/Winchester/Colt? Not a chance.

    The interesting thing about bike lubes is that they are bought by individuals, many professional athletes, and tested by their own leg muscles over many many miles. And the use of a specific bike lube is not mandated by some mil-spec, or industry standard, so new lubes come out quickly, and the mediocre ones die just as quickly. That means that ones that have been around a while are not only capable of beating new fads, they work very well.

    Beyond simple lubrication, there are other factors about lubricants that deserve consideration. Have you ever cleaned and lubed a gun, put it away for a year or so, and come back to find it rusted, that the lube has disappeared, or that the lube has changed into a cruddy mess? When that happens, your lube becomes an enemy. All liquids, including gun lubes, evaporate over time. Some quicker than others. When that happens, your rust protection and lubrication are gone. Petroleum products oxidize over time. Some get hard. Some get foul. Some even become corrosive. Especially when they become contaminated. Eventually, they all stop lubricating. They all stop protecting against rust. The better lubes resist evaporation and oxidation longer. This is not an problem for the operator that shoots, and cleans, his rifle every week. But it is an issue for those of us that rely on a gun to wait patiently, and always be ready.

    The earlier comment about high temperatures is valid. I know of no surface applied lube or grease that can stand up for long to a direct blast of high temperature gas at 40,000 psi (or whatever it is by the time it gets into the BCG). Please tell me if you know of one. I use synthetic motor oil inside the BCG. It seems to hold up better than most, but that's just my opinion. I like to use a grease on the bolt lugs, however, something that is going to persevere longer than motor oil. Does Pedro's Syn grease melt after a while? Of course. So has almost every other lubricant I have tried. But it's still there working anyway, and I don't want to gum things up with a high temp distributor grease either. And Pedro's does not get hard, gummy, oxidize, or change over time. Very stable. Very enduring. Phil Wood's tenacious oil is not a high-temp product, so I don't use it inside the BCG, just the outside. I know it will still be there when I need it, without oxidizing, evaporating, going bad, or running off, even if my gun has been standing in a safe for a couple of years. And the viscosity is perfect, IMO. But this is just my opinion.

    I don't see the point to denegrating other lubes (except Breakfree and WD-40, and the idea of using Vagisil on my gun gives me the creeps), as Skintop seems to want, because, so long as they are applied, they will all do the job. Some stay put better, and some continue to work longer, that's all. Its been said before, but tis worth repeating: choose a lube and use it, often. If you like experimenting with different products, bike lubes are worth giving a try. If you are happy with Slip EWL or even Breakfree, well then, as the ancient saying goes: "may you live forever."

  4. #14
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    Being a bike guy I literally have bottles of chain lube and grease all over the garage but I've never used it on my ARs. I've used Breakfree on my chain a couple of times because I didn't pay attention to what I was grabbing off the shelf but that's about it.

    The only thing I'd like to point out is most bicycle chain lube is not designed for high temps so its possible it will disappear or smoke off rather quickly. Just a thought.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer View Post
    I do. When I clean guns I'm not trying to get the oil and grease off, I'm trying to get the carbon off (and copper fouling, in the barrel). I use "solvents" that break down copper and other fouling for a reason... I'm not sure that a citrus degreaser is going to dissolve copper fouling, etc.

    Otherwise, I use Mobil 1 to lube most of my guns...

    Bimmer
    So I guess you wouldn't use Slip 725 either since it is just another degreaser...

    All degreasers do the same thing, if it is safe for all surfaces, who's to say you can't use it to degrease guns? Many people use automotive brakes parts cleaners in fact since it gets the job done so well.

    If you want to remove fouling, then of course a degreaser will not get the job done. That is why there are other solvents and bore cleaners made to remove copper and lead.
    Last edited by whiterabbit05; 11-03-09 at 15:17.

  6. #16
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    I'm a bike kind of guy, so I'll throw in my two cents.

    For Lube, I'd have to say the dry lube might be alright, but it's going to burn off pretty quick. it's only good for a couple hundred miles on a nice weekend. I can't imagine how quick it's going to come off a hot action.

    The wet lube attracts crap all over the place. even on a clean chain it gets dirty quick. for me any way.

    The thing about the citrus cleaner. I have one good reason to not use it.
    It's Acidic. especially if you end up putting it someplace that it doesn't come out of, you could end up etching the surface.

    Dont' get me wrong I use it on my bike and I love it. but when I use it, I have my bike on a stand and I hose all that crap out so it doesn't etch my gears and bearings.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYPD View Post
    I don't see the point to denegrating other lubes (except Breakfree and WD-40, and the idea of using Vagisil on my gun gives me the creeps), as Skintop seems to want,
    I don't want to denegrate other lubes. I want to learn more about the experiences of people using them (in this case, the bike lubes) and the context of their use so I can more fully contemplate the info.

    You wrote seven paragraphs, but didn't address the questions:

    For those finding gun-specific products coming up short... Can you elaborate on why? What are they failing to do? Where they're leaving you hanging? What systems you're running them in? Types of activities? Quantify your observations? That BreakFree and Hoppes disappoint is not surprising. Have you tried premium lubes and cleaners from folks like Slip, esp the EWL?
    Let me rephrase:

    What guns are you shooting? How many rounds in a session? Type of shooting in the session? How frequent are those sessions? What's your cleaning and/or relubing interval? If you are using the bike products, how does the performance of them in those activities differ from conventional gun lubes?

    I've got a great bike shop in town. If I stop by and pick up one of the premium lubes, stick in an MP5SD, and run the gun until it stops, should I expect that it will run longer, about the same, or less than a BreakFree, WS-CLP, or Slip?

    When I take that lube to a 1k round, 8hr M16 select-fire class, same questions?

    When I use that same lube on a trunk-dwelling agency carbine and come back in a month, should I expect to see more evap, about the same, or less evap than with a conventional lube like above?

    If it's "superior" as you say, awesome. I'll use it. More info is needed, though.
    Last edited by ST911; 11-03-09 at 17:49.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  8. #18
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    to elaborate a bit i will say an extensive study was done by USMC.
    statistically significant increases in bolt longevity were reported
    in the populations of weapons that were liberally greased and lubricated
    both in the initial mating period of the new(colt or fn) weapon assemblies,
    and during the extended firing cycles of the testing.

    in the instances of bolt lug failure, there was significant evidence that the
    cracks often originated at pits caused by corrosion.

    etching:
    as four mentioned, the term etching perfectly describes the invisible damage done by chemicals like the citrus degreaser(for instance).

    i believe the slip 725 is designed to be non- etching (although i have no proof)
    that does not mean that the process due to other agents(like rain or sweat) will not proceed after its use.

    that is why i dont strip my weapons to bare metal routinely or on a whim. it is not necessary. test results indicate increased service life in systems liberally lubricated throughout their cycles of use.

    the thought of using bike products for some reason or other on your weapons is hare-brained. hey, it might work, but dont you have a bike to use them on?

    what you should be concerned about is using a good non-aerosolizing oil/grease combination that does not combust and is stable in high temperatures.

    if that lube combination gets dirty, then change it without stripping to bare metal or in the worst case, etching the surface of the metal.

    if you need to displace water or dirt in some small spaces you can use an aerosol
    type (like for instance G-96 ) that is a lube instead of an extreme solvent.

    don't etch your weapons...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill_d View Post
    the thought of using bike products for some reason or other on your weapons is hare-brained. hey, it might work, but dont you have a bike to use them on?
    See what I mean? If the USMC or some other gubmint agency doesn't say its alright, then many, too many, blithely denegrate other's opinions and experience out of hand. Sad.

  10. #20
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    hey, kypd,
    dont get your feelers hurt,
    nobody is denegrating anyone.
    your post was understandable,
    the fact is, the referenced study is
    probably a sturdy root for your personal
    research.

    you are not considering etching your weapons, are you?

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