Aimpoint, Aimpoint & magnifier, or ACOG w/ Doc

[El Mac]

But not your left nut?

An Aggie living in Austin...that is pure hell brother.

[El Mac]

Would you please explain why?

If you look at the Larue website you will see this mounted with the TA-11, exactly what I was carrying. Now, I never had a need for anything less than 75m (daytime) or so but if I had, I would have preferred that set up to using the TA-11 alone - which by the way, with the horseshoe/dot reticle was absolutely perfect.

Many of the other folks used the TA-31 with the Dr. piggy backed on it and had nothing but good things to say about it. I frankly think too much is made here of having to do a 'chin weld'. We are talking of shifting one's focus maybe only a couple of degrees - not a big deal. Yes there is sight-over-bore issue, but in real life whether you shoot someone through the front teeth or through the running lights, not much of a difference. On an IPSC target, sure - real life, not so much.

[Failure2Stop]

You can be trained, or train yourself to do whatever you want.
Most people don't have issues (once trained) on switching from a dot optic with an offset aim-point requirement on an M4 to a pistol with iron sights with a completely different method of manipulation and trigger control requirements. Add the shotgun and you have another whole set of manipulations and sighting needs. Add a precision rifle and you are dealing with another whole set of skills, even if the only difference is the optic.

If you want to make a piggy-backed MRD/ACOG work, you can.
If you want to make an offset MRD/ACOG work, you can.
If you want to make a T1/3X work, you can.

In my opinon, the piggy-backed MRD/ACOG is the worst option, though it is a viable option. Many of the issues I bring up about it are not deal-breakers. I use the same chin-weld when using visible or IR lasers with a carbine, as will most people that have been "properly" trained on their use in a close-quarter environment. The increased LOS over bore is equal to or just shy of other well established guns such as the AUG, G36, SA80, and FAMAS. The fragility of most MRDs are about equal to issued optics other than the Aimpoints and ACOGs. The biggest issue is the fact that there are two different sighting planes, and to choose the wrong one in a close-range environment is a distinctly non-positive event. HOWEVER- this is something that is remedied by training, just as training to immediately present the rifle at a cant to access an offset T1.

Choices in application will determine which material solution will offer the greatest real-life benefit. The NightForce 2.5-10 is one of the finest precision optics, but applied to the wrong situation it would be the absolute worst choice.

I would not recommend the TR24 or any AGOC for stand-alone use. Lack of a distinct and user-variable reticle in certain lighting conditions have proven to be issues in the past. My personal use of a TA11G has indicated that in those same lighting conditions it is not nearly as valuable as something like an EoTech or Aimpoint, though it is much better than the TA31 or TA11 series. If you want an ACOG for 50m+ use in the real world, you need to back it up with one of the mini-red dot solutions. I have a TA11G all by itself on one gun- the gun I play games with. It does that job really well.

The penalties for choosing the wrong optic in the real world varies.
Choosing the wrong optic at close range reduces your ability to aim, and therefore your ability to rapidly and accurately deal with a threat.
Choosing the wrong optic at 200 meters reduces your identification and discrimination ability as well as a probable decrease in precision.
There are a few ways to deal with the entire spectrum well without the need for much extra training. These involve Red-Dots with magnifiers and low-powered variables.
If you are willing to put more time and ammo into training, the MRDs in combination with low-powered fixed magnification optics (such as ACOGs) or mid-powered variables (3-9X, 2.5-10X, or fixed 10X, and similar) are an viable option, but they all sacrifice some close-range for longer range. Honestly, if you are shooting no further than 200 meters, you do not need a BDC, which is one of the things that makes the ACOGs worth the price of admission.

[Alaskapopo]

I am going to try out the ACOC aimpoint combo. I just purchased a used TA33 and I am ordering a Aimpoint T1 from larue in the off set mount. I will post pics when I get it all done.
pat

[UrbanRunner]

I vote RDS with tip-over AND removable magnifier.

I found a good price on the Aimpoint M4s at Botach Tactical. Price includes standard mount, spacer, Killflash, and lens caps. Eventually, I will likely add the 3x magnifier with LaRue QD pivot mount.

The Aimpoint by itself (at least initially) seems to be in keeping with my preference to follow the KISS principle. It also reflects the more likely and relatively shorter distances that I would expect working as a LEO.

[Alaskapopo]

Even though I agree with rob_s, the H-1 on an LT-724 works well in close, particularly when we train to go to the Aimpoint first. I could not stand to sell the TA31F at market price. This made keeping it worthwhile. Best of both worlds. YMMV.

I know its not really needed as you have two optics. But can a BUIS fit behind the ACOG on your set up. I have a TA33 on the way and am about to order a T1 in a mount just like yours. Just wondered if there is room for the buis while maintaining eye relief for the ACOG. I can mount the T1 more forward I suppose.

[iceman94]

Recently purchased a Colt 6920,am looking into optics and have it narrowed down to either Aimpoint comp3 and the 3x magnifier or Trijicon T31ECOS.Gun will be used at range,tactical courses and when the time comes self defense.Thanks

[UrbanRunner]

I have now given up on the not in stock Botach Tactical and instead ordered the M4s from G&R Tactical (who I should have gone with in the first place).

The final setup will be the Aimpoint M4s and 3x mag both in LaRue mounts.

I'm looking forward to getting some range time soon.

[UrbanRunner]

Now complete w/ optics:

[Submariner]

I know its not really needed as you have two optics. But can a BUIS fit behind the ACOG on your set up. I have a TA33 on the way and am about to order a T1 in a mount just like yours. Just wondered if there is room for the buis while maintaining eye relief for the ACOG. I can mount the T1 more forward I suppose.

Sorry I missed this, Pat.

Yes, both KAC 300m and 600m as well as Troy mounts will fit.