What's your "diet"?

[Derek_Connor]

The implication that it is based on any sort of evidence when it is sketchy at best is what I take issue with.

What do you find sketchy with the current anthropology studies behind what our ancestors ate?

As I stated previously, if all those people controlled for kcal, macro intake, etc., then I would understand...but going from a typical American diet to a paleo diet and saying it's the food choices that made a difference is missing the forest for the trees.

I dont understand this statement.
So you are saying that one has to count calories, macro nutrient %, etc to be successful in their regimen? Did I get that right?

Source please.

Research the mechanisms behind CXCR3, zonulin and their effects on intestinal epithelial cells.

Gluten exposure causes inflammation and permeability issues in your gut lining, at the VERY LEAST. To what degree you notice it, is hard to say per individual. Take it out of your diet for a 6-8 weeks, and then re-expose yourself, post your results.

If paleo man suddenly had the food choices Americans have, he'd pry say "**** this shit, I want some McDonald's"

Sure he would, path of least resistance for him to get the highest amount of calories.

But then he would also soon enjoy diabetes, heart disease, cancer, (insert neolithic disease here).

[Blake]

I began a Paleo diet (+ dairy) around November 15th. I stayed dedicated to it (except for thanksgiving day) until Christmas time. I cheated for like two weeks, then back on as of two weeks ago.

This is where I'm out. I have always worked out regularly (military prior now LE). I'm in pretty decent shape. I run regularly and do mostly body weight and fitness bands. I don't have room in my house for lots of free weights.

I lose weight pretty easy on the Paleo diet. However, I hate it. Call me a slug or a slob, but I love food and I love beer. I like Italian, Mexican, and more importantly a good ole steak and baked potato. However, I do realize that health and fitness are important, and I value that. I also realize that over-indulgence is a killer.

I know there are recipes and stuff for the Paleo deal, but I feel like it is lacking flavor. If I didn't eat cheese with this diet I would off myself. I'm used to the diet, I eat a lot of meet, cheese, and fruit, usually veggies with dinner at night. I just find it a very lacking diet. A big plate of spaghetti with meat sauce and some breadsticks are much more appealing.

This may sound lame, or call it being victimized by culture, I just feel like eating great food and drinking a great tasting beer is a pleasure in life, that I'm not sure that I want to give up. What are your thoughts??

I'm 5'11 about 198lbs now. Probably around 16% body fat, could be a percent off or so. My goal was to lose body fat and weight. I want to be a bit more agile and lighter on my feet for running purposes and general mobility.

[dookie1481]

What do you find sketchy with the current anthropology studies behind what our ancestors ate?

Assumptions about what a handful of tribes ate being extrapolated to an entire species. As stated, people in different places could have had dramatically different diets. But I'm not an anthropologist, so I may be wrong.

Also, using info about what ancient humans ate to make predictions about modern man's health is specious at best. There are a whole host of confounding variables involved: disease (paleo man usually didn't live long anyway), lack of activity inherent in modern society (paleo man had to run after his food), technology, etc.

Okinawan people are the longest-lived on Earth...Mediterraneans are up there as well...they eat tons of grains.

IIRC, some of Cordain's research used modern hunter-gatherer tribes diet as an example of what paleo man would have eaten...see the problem with this?

I dont understand this statement.
So you are saying that one has to count calories, macro nutrient %, etc to be successful in their regimen? Did I get that right?

No, what I'm saying is that the efficacy of a diet rarely (if ever) has anything to do with food choices. The total caloric intake is what matters.

People often reason that "the (insert diet here) diet works, I lost x pounds!" Any diet works when it causes you to consume less calories than you burn. If you were eating 3500 calories of shitty food a day, and switch to a diet that had you moving more and eating 2500 calories a day, you will lose weight, whether it is paleo, low-fat, vegetarian, etc. Your composition may differ, but it is energy balance that dictates weight loss.

This I why I stated many people miss the forest for the trees.

Research the mechanisms behind CXCR3, zonulin and their effects on intestinal epithelial cells.

Gluten exposure causes inflammation and permeability issues in your gut lining, at the VERY LEAST.

I will look into it. But what does it have to do with weight loss?

To what degree you notice it, is hard to say per individual. Take it out of your diet for a 6-8 weeks, and then re-expose yourself, post your results.

Not terribly interested in going to an absurd amount of trouble (and often great expense) to find gluten-free foods...but are you saying I would lose more weight on a gluten-free diet than one with gluten products?


As I previously stated, I think the "paleo diet", inasmuch as there is a coherent one, is a good "rule of thumb" for eating...but I feel that it's a fad that will go away like so many others.

My biggest problem with the paleo community is the evangelical fervor with which they present everything. Everything seems to be such a binary proposition. Either you eat paleo or you eat a shitty diet.

There is a lot to take away from the paleo community, but it has almost become a ****ing religion at this point.

[dookie1481]

This is kind of interesting, BTW:



The culture with the most longevity gets over 90% of their daily energy intake from grains...

[dookie1481]

RE: Cordain's research, one of his own papers states

"Unfortunately, not a single comprehensive study evaluating the macronutrient and trace nutrient contents of the wild plant and animal foods actually consumed in completely un-Westernized hunter-gatherer diets was ever conducted."

Also, from Alan Aragon:

Katharine Milton, a professor of biology (Division of Insect Biology, Dept. of Environmental Science at the University of California at Berkeley), points out the following possibilities that may potentially reduce the validity of the ethnographic data upon which Cordain’s latest work is based:

 Hunter-gatherers in their purely un-westernized form were extinct by the 20th century. The Ethnographic Atlas is compiled largely from 20th century sources, and written by individuals with widely varying backgrounds, who were not necessarily interested or skilled at dietary collection techniques.

 Some societies may have been miscoded as hunter-gatherers, since all societies in the Atlas were modern-day humans with richly diverse social end economic conditions, rather than sole survivors of a nutritionally ideal primitive era.

 The idea that some societies derived most of their energy from animal protein and fat does not render this diet ideal for modern man; it simply demonstrates the environmental extremes survivable by man as long as a full range of essential nutrients is available.

So much of his theory is based on research conducted on modern-day tribes, and was strictly qualitative in nature.

[dookie1481]

I lose weight pretty easy on the Paleo diet. However, I hate it. Call me a slug or a slob, but I love food and I love beer. I like Italian, Mexican, and more importantly a good ole steak and baked potato. However, I do realize that health and fitness are important, and I value that. I also realize that over-indulgence is a killer.

This may sound lame, or call it being victimized by culture, I just feel like eating great food and drinking a great tasting beer is a pleasure in life, that I'm not sure that I want to give up. What are your thoughts??

This is EXACTLY the type of mentality I'm talking about, guys.

Blake, you don't have to give any of it up. You can enjoy anything you want, IN MODERATION. You want a beer, have a beer. You want Mexican or Italian food, enjoy it. But you have to compromise somewhere else. Say you need to eat 2500 calories a day (arbitrary number) to achieve your goal, whatever it may be. If your dinner is normally a 750 calorie meal, and you want a burrito that is 1200 calories, then guess what? You have to cut 450 calories somewhere to have the same energy balance. You can eat a smaller meal, skip a meal, eat less through the rest of the week, whatever. As long as you use moderation, you can do those sorts of things.

Life is too short to be a ****ing slave to your food.

[Blake]

Life is too short to be a ****ing slave to your food.

And this is my feeling exactly. I started this diet because my brother and his wife are members of the crossfit cult. Before anyone takes major offense. I have done crossfit, and I appreciate what it does...to an extent. I'm joking. However, they (brother and wife and I know others) do follow anything that comes out of the Crossfit hierarchy. If they said eat two cowpies daily to improve, they would do it.... blindly. I started this diet for one goal, to lose weight. I have achieved that purpose. However, in my case, I feel it is unsustainable long term. People say Paleo is a lifestyle and a way of living. If that is the case, I don't subscribe. There are some pretty extensive recipes and ways to make the diet more "tasty", but, damn it is expensive. Have you seen the price of almond flour or almond butter. I can't afford it on my current salary. Back to the lifestyle claim. If people truly feel that it is a lifestyle, then "cheat days" or occasional slips can't be endorsed. That would be going completely against the lifestyle you are purporting to endorse.

I also look at it from the perspective of this: in the not so distant future, Crossfit used to advocate the use of the Zone diet. If I understand the sequence of events correctly, Rob Wolff was their nutrition guru and advocated Paleo, because this was not in line with the "Crossfit Way", he was let go. Now he is back on, and Crossfit recommends Paleo. Please forgive me if my facts are wrong, names are backwards, or I'm otherwise F'd up, but I thought that is what was explained to me. How can it be Zone one day, and now you are as wrong as two boys if you aren't doing Paleo. In the past my brother has recommended the Zone Diet to me, now it is totally wrong??

So my sister-in-law, explains to me that she doesn't understand all the science she just knows she feels so much better on this diet, and that is why she did it. Okay, that is good...if it helps prevent disease, and is better on the stomach, etc (add in benefit here), why does she take high blood pressure medication at age 40, and had to see the doctor over Christmas because her blood pressure was really high. This is a sample of one, but how good can you feel, when your blood pressure is out of control?

I felt pretty good before this. I don't feel worse now and I can't say I feel better. Although I do feel good about losing a few pounds, all I think about is wanting to eat a huge plate of spaghetti and eating a gallon of Fruity Pebbles. Unless I've been drinking, I've never been a big snacker, so that isn't an issue for me.

I've rambled on, but the only thing I have found to be constant when it concerns health foods, eating, diet recommendations is that know that nobody can agree on anything. Such as, until Paleo, I have never heard the claim that grains, rice, potatoes, pasta, etc, eats away your guts. Is there anyone outside of the Paleo crowd that backs this claim?

I tend to think that eating the right balance and proportion of carbs-protein-fat is the way to go, and keeping everything in moderation. I'm still on the diet, but I'm beginning to think there are better ways.

[dookie1481]

And this is my feeling exactly. I started this diet because my brother and his wife are members of the crossfit cult. Before anyone takes major offense. I have done crossfit, and I appreciate what it does...to an extent. I'm joking. However, they (brother and wife and I know others) do follow anything that comes out of the Crossfit hierarchy. If they said eat two cowpies daily to improve, they would do it.... blindly. I started this diet for one goal, to lose weight. I have achieved that purpose. However, in my case, I feel it is unsustainable long term. People say Paleo is a lifestyle and a way of living. If that is the case, I don't subscribe. There are some pretty extensive recipes and ways to make the diet more "tasty", but, damn it is expensive. Have you seen the price of almond flour or almond butter. I can't afford it on my current salary. Back to the lifestyle claim. If people truly feel that it is a lifestyle, then "cheat days" or occasional slips can't be endorsed. That would be going completely against the lifestyle you are purporting to endorse.

Crossfit is notorious for attracting these types.

I also look at it from the perspective of this: in the not so distant future, Crossfit used to advocate the use of the Zone diet. If I understand the sequence of events correctly, Rob Wolff was their nutrition guru and advocated Paleo, because this was not in line with the "Crossfit Way", he was let go. Now he is back on, and Crossfit recommends Paleo. Please forgive me if my facts are wrong, names are backwards, or I'm otherwise F'd up, but I thought that is what was explained to me. How can it be Zone one day, and now you are as wrong as two boys if you aren't doing Paleo. In the past my brother has recommended the Zone Diet to me, now it is totally wrong??

Nope, I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

So my sister-in-law, explains to me that she doesn't understand all the science she just knows she feels so much better on this diet, and that is why she did it. Okay, that is good...if it helps prevent disease, and is better on the stomach, etc (add in benefit here), why does she take high blood pressure medication at age 40, and had to see the doctor over Christmas because her blood pressure was really high. This is a sample of one, but how good can you feel, when your blood pressure is out of control?

I don't know your sister-in-law, but it could be hereditary. I've had high blood pressure for my whole life, even when I was a skinny-ass, 21 year old 135 pound Marine infantry man who ran every day.

I felt pretty good before this. I don't feel worse now and I can't say I feel better.

I would say this is a sign. Why go to all the trouble for no obvious benefit?

Although I do feel good about losing a few pounds, all I think about is wanting to eat a huge plate of spaghetti and eating a gallon of Fruity Pebbles.

Many knowledgeable able nutrition people recommend refeeds once in a while, it's good psychologically and physiologically.

Such as, until Paleo, I have never heard the claim that grains, rice, potatoes, pasta, etc, eats away your guts. Is there anyone outside of the Paleo crowd that backs this claim?

I don't know what you mean by "eats away your guts", but there are many studies that show the health benefits of grains (not all of which are funded by agriculture lol).

I tend to think that eating the right balance and proportion of carbs-protein-fat is the way to go, and keeping everything in moderation. I'm still on the diet, but I'm beginning to think there are better ways.

Here are a shit-ton of articles on nutrition/diet basics: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/cat...n-fundamentals

[120mm]

Sure he would, path of least resistance for him to get the highest amount of calories.

But then he would also soon enjoy diabetes, heart disease, cancer, (insert neolithic disease here).

You mean, he'd grow old and large enough to experience the normal consequences of growing old and large, instead of dying at 29, 5'3" and 120 pounds. And suffering malnutrition his entire life.

The leading cause of disease is old age. If only we all died at 35, there would be very little diabetes, heart disease, cancer and whatever else.

This is EXACTLY the type of mentality I'm talking about, guys.

Blake, you don't have to give any of it up. You can enjoy anything you want, IN MODERATION. You want a beer, have a beer. You want Mexican or Italian food, enjoy it. But you have to compromise somewhere else. Say you need to eat 2500 calories a day (arbitrary number) to achieve your goal, whatever it may be. If your dinner is normally a 750 calorie meal, and you want a burrito that is 1200 calories, then guess what? You have to cut 450 calories somewhere to have the same energy balance. You can eat a smaller meal, skip a meal, eat less through the rest of the week, whatever. As long as you use moderation, you can do those sorts of things.

Life is too short to be a ****ing slave to your food.

The cool thing is, the more active you are, and lower body fat you maintain, the more you can get away with, dietary wise, as long as you fulfill your daily requirements.

[justin_247]

I gained the amount of weight i gained mostly because it seemed as though i was on some variation of the warrior diet. No breakfast, small lunch and then a huge dinner. Sure, i was leading a sedentary lifestyle at the time but even with weight training, a conscious effort to eat well and a bit of dedication towards ensuring im eating enough protein, carbs and fat i still find it hard to shed unwanted weight.

Anyone else have any opinions backed by personal experience in regards to the diet?

Generally, I don't think this is a good thing. However, that has been *EXACTLY* my diet for at least the last decade. But it only works if you work out nearly every single day, with a strong focus on aerobics and lean muscle exercises like in P90X and Crossfit. I've actually begun gaining weight recently on this diet and I'm pretty angry at myself, but the reason why is because I haven't been running nearly as much and, due to work, haven't had the chance to do much else. Still, I'm 5'10" and just over 150 lbs...

Genetics absolutely play a role, I believe, and no one diet is for everybody.