Truth about Training/Instructors and a Review

[epf]

Your logic is jacked. To provide an anecdote as to how, specific only to the above:

Alouiscious Schmendrick invites you over for Thanksgiving with his family, as well as his co-worker, Douchebag MacGillicutty, whom you've never met before. During the course of dinner, Douchebag decides to butt-plow the Schmendrick family dog in front of everybody, and proceeds to wipe himself off on the curtains once done. You get the hell outta there, hoping you never see Douchebag ever again. For all you know, your host was just as horrified as you, but you don't know because you couldn't be bothered to ask, and have subsequently vowed to never speak to poor Schmendrick and his raped dog ever again, based on the actions of a third party not under direct control of the host.

Don't get me started on how you're looking at nothing more than the course curriculum or syllabus, using it to assume some sort of foreknowledge as to how that instructor conducts his class (once again, having asserted that you have not received instruction from Mr. Perroni and his staff), and then sharpshooting him over it.

That's NOT how constructive critical thought processes work.

That's pure opinion and belief, which is just fine, but own your opinion and state it as so. Don't couch it in terms of non-judgemental discourse, because that's pretty clearly not the case.

WOW ...... First of all the class was MAGPUL and was excellent, the hosts were questionable.... however, none of that is relevant. No need to have my logic questioned by someone who presumes my intent.

Your comments are not worthy of the kind of discussions here but belong somewhere else.

I have every right to ask logical questions of someone who posts a review of a course and of someone who advertises courses here asking members to spend money there. My comments were accurate and respectful.

Apparently my comments were not that far off base since there is now an AAR up that lays out EXACTLY what I was saying for this very class. This AAR is provided by no less than 2 students

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=41999

Mr. P seems more than capable of responding for himself and you are not helping him with your eloquent story. I am sure he is glad to have some clear headed well spoken defenders like you.

No need to get your feathers ruffled about logical questions regarding a class. I believe that any class or instructor should be able to answer simple questions. Should I spend money and travel to a class without questioning what I will get out of it?

I will bow out of this now because I don't have time for internet babble. It is a shame that we cannot hold a logical discussion.

[DCJS Instructor]

WOW ...... First of all the class was MAGPUL and was excellent, the hosts were questionable.... however, none of that is relevant. No need to have my logic questioned by someone who presumes my intent.

Your comments are not worthy of the kind of discussions here but belong somewhere else.

I have every right to ask logical questions of someone who posts a review of a course and of someone who advertises courses here asking members to spend money there. My comments were accurate and respectful.

Apparently my comments were not that far off base since there is now an AAR up that lays out EXACTLY what I was saying for this very class. This AAR is provided by no less than 2 students

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=41999

Mr. P seems more than capable of responding for himself and you are not helping him with your eloquent story. I am sure he is glad to have some clear headed well spoken defenders like you.

No need to get your feathers ruffled about logical questions regarding a class. I believe that any class or instructor should be able to answer simple questions. Should I spend money and travel to a class without questioning what I will get out of it?

I will bow out of this now because I don't have time for internet babble. It is a shame that we cannot hold a logical discussion.

Eric,

I welcome your comments and don't take any offense to them at all. In order to be a good instructor one must first be a good student.

I would never be so arrogant as to assume I know everything and can not discuss training logically or answer a student’s question. In fact I would be leery of any Instructor who can not give you an answer as to why they teach a particular method or way of doing things.

However I would welcome you to a class at no charge so that you can have first hand knowledge of the course. All I would ask in return is an AAR the good the bad and the ugly.

I am in no way the best Instructor in this field but I believe we deliver solid training to our students for the money. All I ask is that you are objective and take a course before dissecting it.

And since you named the course MAGPUL I will tell you that their were students in that course who should have been in a Basic course. They were in no way prepared for what they were doing. I had to pull one gentleman because I was afraid he was going to pass out due to heat stroke.

I can only hope that the actions that left any negative impressions in your mind were not caused by me directly. I have had some staff changes since then. I also tried to rectify the issues that arose as quickly as possible. Which was a miss communication, however my facility my problem.

Let me also say that this is in NO WAY a slam on MAGPUL Chris or D Ray! I have much love for those guys.

We should be open to discuss training on this forum and will tell you that those who answered you are students who have taken the course and probably feel just as strongly about the topic as you do.

Thanks for posting!

Tom

[epf]

MR. P-

Good post. Argue means to disagree not to fight. You obviously understand that.

[Submariner]

I wouldn't norally ask this, but since you offered it, could you tell us who you have trained with in the past?

Failure2Stop: There is only one company mentioned on this forum who I have not had the pleasure to train with....

With all due respect, I submit that your response to Failure2Stop was non-responsive.

In law school, my Dean stated that he was a four-point Calvinist (there are five.) When I ask him which point he excluded from his theology, he said I would have to figure that out. Fair enough. He was the Dean.

You, however, have neither positional authority nor have you established here any bona fides. Therefore, I'll rephrase the question in two parts:

Would you please name each "company named on this forum" which provides training?

With which one have you "not had the pleasure to train"?

[WVBartMan]

Submariner: I have not had the pleasure to train with Grey Group/Tiger Swan yet, sorry counselor. The next question usually goes "Dan, of all the companies you have trained with, who's the best/worst?" The answer is I am only going to give AAR's from courses taken within 48-hours of course completion. I will not do comparisons from one training company or instructor to another. I will be doing several repeat courses with repeat instructors in 2010. I will focus on the positives with just a brief detail on the negatives, I will not post flames against any companies or instructors but will share in private if your interested.

[Submariner]

Submariner: I have not had the pleasure to train with Grey Group/Tiger Swan yet, sorry counselor. The next question usually goes "Dan, of all the companies you have trained with, who's the best/worst?"

Still not responsive.

Putting words in peoples' mouths is a dirty habit.

Have you trained, then, with Dean Caputo?

[Iraq Ninja]

I am in my late 40’s, military background, multiple adventures into the sandbox as an armed contractor but not a “shooter” but a principal.

Hey, just wondering if we may have crossed paths in the past. I have been playing in the Sandbox since early 2004 to today. Feel free to send me a PM if you want.

Tom and I crossed paths back in 2004 in Virginia. No problems on my end with what he is doing...

[BLACK LION]

Your logic is jacked. To provide an anecdote as to how, specific only to the above:

Alouiscious Schmendrick invites you over for Thanksgiving with his family, as well as his co-worker, Douchebag MacGillicutty, whom you've never met before. During the course of dinner, Douchebag decides to butt-plow the Schmendrick family dog in front of everybody, and proceeds to wipe himself off on the curtains once done. You get the hell outta there, hoping you never see Douchebag ever again. For all you know, your host was just as horrified as you, but you don't know because you couldn't be bothered to ask, and have subsequently vowed to never speak to poor Schmendrick and his raped dog ever again, based on the actions of a third party not under direct control of the host.

Don't get me started on how you're looking at nothing more than the course curriculum or syllabus, using it to assume some sort of foreknowledge as to how that instructor conducts his class (once again, having asserted that you have not received instruction from Mr. Perroni and his staff), and then sharpshooting him over it.

That's NOT how constructive critical thought processes work.

That's pure opinion and belief, which is just fine, but own your opinion and state it as so. Don't couch it in terms of non-judgemental discourse, because that's pretty clearly not the case.

Hhahahahahahhah... I about sprayed snot all over my monitor from laughing.

That is by far the best analogy I have ever seen, read or heard...

[SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

And since you named the course MAGPUL I will tell you that their were students in that course who should have been in a Basic course. They were in no way prepared for what they were doing. I had to pull one gentleman because I was afraid he was going to pass out due to heat stroke.

I can only hope that the actions that left any negative impressions in your mind were not caused by me directly. I have had some staff changes since then. I also tried to rectify the issues that arose as quickly as possible. Which was a miss communication, however my facility my problem.

Let me also say that this is in NO WAY a slam on MAGPUL Chris or D Ray! I have much love for those guys.

Tom

Tom,

Please do not add us into your retort on a negitive post... Especially since D-Ray (a very experienced 18D) pulled that student due to seeing a overheating issue out, and not you...

[glock_forty5]

I have taken several classes with Tom Perroni and I was at that MagPul class. Tom agreed to host it last minute as the original location in Culpepper, VA was not available or not suitable (not sure which). The only real issue we had was a few missing target stands (I think there were 20 students) Saturday morning. If I recall, additional target stands were there before lunch time. Other than the visit from the blonde cop chick (Costa sweet talked her) I did not see any issues with Tom's staff at that class.

I have taken training from CCJA, Black Water, and MagPul. All offer something different and I have no hesitations in recommending anyone of them. The big plus for me about CCJA beside the instruction is the one day format and that they are a two hour drive away (I am not comfortable flying with my gear). I can break away for one day with out scheduling time off of work.

Just my 2 cents,

JT

ETA - Tom is a straight shooter and has always been fair with me. I have been to one of his classes where only 7 of the planned 15 students showed up and he still held the class (probably losing money). I thought it was a classy move. I consider him a friend.