Magpul AFG Added More Pics/Info

[Volucris]

I don't feel that any of mine are unacceptable.

[SWATcop556]

I don't feel that any of mine are unacceptable.

They were unacceptable enough to call Magpul out in a public forum without contacting them first yet now they are ok when you've been asked for photos and Magpul is offering to replace them free of charge to you.

Smells like bullshit to me.

[SWATcop556]

Please send me a list of the Magpul products you own that you feel are unacceptable (model and color), and we will send you replacements along with a return shipping label. Our production engineers have ridiculous QC guidelines even by my own personal standards, but no one is perfect - if we screwed up, we'll make it right.

Let me know.

Yet one more reason you guys kick ass Nick.

In an attempt to get the thread back on topic, how has the T&E been going? Are you guys seeing positive feedback on the AFG?

Also it was said mid December on availability and since it IS the 15th.........

[welchtactical]

anyone gets a pre-order going and Im down for 2!

[SWATcop556]

anyone gets a pre-order going and Im down for 2!

Send Grant at G&R an email. BravoCo has the email notification for it set up to go.

[AEROX711]

Yes, it is the 15th now... I'm 8 hours ahead of a lot of you so hopefully I'll have an edge in ordering a few

[RetreatHell]

Just FYI, this is quite a long ass post... as usual, I didn't initially intend for it to be this lengthy

being a dumb ass im sorry

Vol,

Why did you delete your original 2nd comment and replace it with the above? It was a far better 2nd post than your 1st one... at least I thought it was.

- Anyhow, about the fatigue issues you mentioned originally:

*The only time I see this style of gripping the hand guard as fatiguing is during an intense carbine course, where you're constantly lifting your carbine from the Low Ready to the Ready and firing, then repeating that over and over again countless times for 2-3 (or more) days. While it CAN get very fatiguing doing that while utilizing this particular grip style, I see it as being a non-issue.

I view it that way because if you get THAT tired in a carbine course during an intense and high round-count course of fire, you can always adjust your grip temporarily and bring it closer in towards the mag well to take a "break." I had to do this a few times in my 3 day carbine course, because my left arm just couldn't take it anymore and gave out on me with it being extended out towards the muzzle of my carbine.

But I try and utilize that grip as long as I possibly can during training, and once I rest my arm a bit I'll throw that bitch back up to the front of my hand guard and beer can grip it again. For ME, YMMV of course, utilizing the style of grip that Magpul Dynamics teaches to its students is superior than all the others out there when it comes to controlling recoil/muzzle rise and having much faster follow-up shots on target, and it also gives me better overall control of the weapon itself (obviously there are times when using a different style grip is better, i.e. as in most cases, your current situation and body position and position of the target dictates the grip you will use or not use). When I transition to a different target while utilizing that grip, I don't have that over-sway and accidentally shoot to the left/right (depending on which direction I'm transitioning to) of the target; instead, I stop right when I need to and drill a good 3-7 holes right in the high center chest of that bitch.

* If you use that grip all of the time, eventually your muscles will be strong enough and have the stamina to endure for much more rigorous and longer training sessions/carbine courses. My second carbine class that I used that grip in went MUCH better and I never once got so fatigued that I had to pull my left arm back in towards the mag well to rest it.

* My last reason for 'fatigue" being a non-issue when utilizing this type of hand grip on your carbine is simple: when you're in a no-bullshit gunfight and your life, and possibly the lives of others around you, is on the line, you ain't gonna get fatigued at all whatsoever. Your adrenaline will kick in once you start engaging the bad guy and shooting him repeatedly in his chest. Trust me on that one, man. You won't hear the loudness of your (or anyone else's) gunfire either, just muffled pops. I've been there and done that, and being tired is non-existent in a gunfight. After you come down off your adrenaline high, then maybe you might notice some aches and pains, like your knee hurts like hell from slamming down into the Dynamic Prone position on concrete... but you won't notice any of that shit when rounds are flying down AND up range.


- Also, as for Magpul's description of the AFG on this and other forums:

* Look, it might go a little heavy with the medical terminology and explanation of what the AFG is and what it does, etc... But hey, it's some damn good marketing written and accomplished by someone there at Magpul who's put a LOT of thought into it, and I think they did a pretty damn good job at it... even if a few of the words went right over my 0311 grunt head. But I still think they did a great job on it.

I finger-****ed the AFG at my previous Magpul Dynamics carbine course, the one on Travis Haley's 14.5" BCM middy. I asked to see his carbine because I wanted to check out the BCM 14.5" middy, but figured I'd also go ahead and shoulder the gun and place my hand on the AFG since it was mounted on it. Unfortunately I was too friggin' retarded at the time to think about inserting the one full Pmag of 28 rounds I had in my bag on my side and actually shooting that badass blaster, which I'm still really pissed off at myself for (stupid! stupid! stupid Paul!!!), but regardless, at least I was smart enough to shoulder the carbine, grip the AFG and aim it down range.

I noticed that the AFG basically put my hand in the same grip and location that I already use. It felt pretty good, but I'm not about to make any opinion or judgements based off my 1 minute of finger-****ery with the carbine and AFG.

However, that said, if I was explaining the AFG to someone in laymen's terms, I would simply say that the AFG pretty much places the shooter's hand in the location and grip that Magpul Dynamics teaches it's students to use in their training classes, allowing the shooter to have all of the benefits I initially described above about this particular style of gripping the carbine. It's kind of like a cheat sheet for guys who like using that style of grip, because instead of having to "locate" that sweet spot on the rail that works best for you when using that style of grip, the AFG allows you to easily place your hand in the same position and location every time without having to think about it.

Note that you still have to decide where to put your thumb on the rail, as the AFG doesn't have a spot for your thumb to go on it. You can either point you thumb straight forward (pistol style) in between the 9 and 12 o'clock rails, or rest it pointing mostly forward on the 12 o'clock rail (I use to do it that way), or just have your thumb extending over the 12 o'clock rail at roughly a 45-degree angle like when you're gripping a beer can (which is what I now do).

But apparently, judging from Magpul's ad on the AFG, when utilizing the AFG to use this particular grip technique, it places your hand and wrist in the most optimal positions so that it prevents fatigue and injury to the wrist and the joints in the wrist. I don't know how valid an argument that is, but I guarantee that Magpul wouldn't print it unless they've come to those conclusions only after consulting with professionals and SMEs on the subject. I trust them and believe in their integrity.

- One last thing...

*$35 is SUPER cheap, bro! If it was ANY other company out there that brought this brand new product to the market, I bet my life that they'd be charging a minimum of $50 for it, if not $75 or even $95!! Magpul has some of the very best products out there in this industry, and they sell them for less than ANY of the competition, who's products are most likely not near as good or top quality as Magpul's are. So I'm loving the cheap price-point of the AFG, as well as everything else Magpul sells!

Overall, Magpul makes some outstanding gear and accessories, and I trust my life to many of them. Right now, there's a Marine Infantryman somewhere in southern A-stan engaged in a firefight with some Taliban scumbags. That Marine is using a PMAG in his M16/M4, and instead of dealing with a damn double feed or performing a tap-rack-bang, or dealing with some other magazine-induced failure of the weapon, he's blasting holes into the torso and head of some smelly, bearded bad guy who was insane enough to **** with a Marine grunt.

Common scenarios like these, and amazing products like the PMAG, are just a couple of the many reasons I love Magpul as a company and also their products.

My apologies for the length of my post and getting a little off topic here and there.

Semper Fi,

-Paul

[Tritium]

Hey Paul!

That was an excellent post (as per your usual)! Thanks for the info.

I have limited experience with Magpul products but I have a couple and I like them. I went over my gear when I first recieved it and I did not see the quality control issues that have been alluded to here.

As to the AFG - I am interested in testing the utility of this particular grip in an environment where the rifle is shouldered in a covering position for extended periods such as during house clearing or stealth clearing. I also intend on trying it for 3 gun matches and I can already see the utility of the grip for fast follow-ups.

Great info guys. However, I doubt the claims made by Volucris regarding poor QC. Is it possible that the products he purchased are knock-offs?

[ForTehNguyen]

this grip is great especially for people currently using the "thumb break" grip, like me. I sent those magpul slides that talk about the different grips and muscle positions to a friend of mine studying physical therapy. Here is what she had to say:

yes... the slides somewhat make sense about their ergonomics.
-for the hand stop slide... it's not that you're overextending your supinators, but more like (if looking at the picture) you're deviating your wrist towards your pinky which will stretch the structures of your finger and wrist on the thumb side. you've got your radial nerve and artery and vein running through there, so if holding your wrist in that position may possibly lead to some irritation to those structures.

-for vfg if you hold onto something too tight you might go numb in your fingers... so try to get fingers and wrist moving as much as possible. try not to hold your fingers and wrist in extreme positions too long because it may cause restriction to blood flow and make your nerves unhappy... PTs believe that motion is lotion.

any grip that will make your arm is in neither palm up or palm down and with no wrist deviation towards the pinky or towards the thumb is good. and remember you're holding the gun with other bigger muscles like your deltoids and biceps and a balance of forearm flexors and extensors.

the bolded statement is exactly what this grip does, maximize the neutral wrist position and keep your palm face up. If your wrist is extended towards thumb/pinky side for some time it begins to strain and fatigue faster than a more neutral position.

this angled support hand grip with thumb forward is no different than how the support hand is positioned when shooting pistol, for my pistol grip technique at least.

[Belmont31R]

I just want to add a lot of people don't realize how poor their grip on the gun is until they have to do it for an entire day or days.