VT AK Class #1 - Reviews, Comments, and Photos.

**John_Wayne777** · 03-12-07, 15:35

Originally Posted by modern_pirate

Could you share with us:

Slings - what worked, what didn't

Single points worked, but Vickers is not a big fan of them. They are very easy to use for switching shoulders, but he contends that they suck for everything else. Having used one for a bit on my AR now, I have to agree with him on that. Great for switching to the left shoulder....they stink for about everything else.

Larry has his name on a quick adjust two point sling from Blue Force Gear that seems to work pretty well.

Three point slings bite the big one. I used one through this course and I was constantly fighting with it. I never noticed how bad they suck before because I had never worn anything on my chest before. I had always just used a simple duty belt in the past. It had always had moments of real suckitude like when it would stop me from using the bolt release on an AR during a stress course, but it had always been a manageable level of suck. This time with the SKD Eagle chest rig I was constantly fussing with the sling to get it out of the velcro on the pouches or to keep it from getting hung up on my pistol magazines and dragging them out. It was maddening.

Rigs - where the mags were stored and how was access?

The students all had some sort of chest rig. There were a couple of SKD Eagle rigs, a couple of plain Eagle rigs, and a couple of armor carrier rigs with pouches on them.

After doing some prone work folks started moving stuff around to allow for better prone positioning.

Simpler really is better. Mags crammed into cargo pants would work just fine too.

Mags - any problems with particular countries/makers?

I believe GotM4 had some busted clear polymer mags, but the AK expert (I believe it is Templar...) said there were a couple of bad production runs of that type of 5.56 magazine.

Caliber - was it 5.56 and 7.62 or any 5.45?

I think there were only three people shooting 7.62x39mm, me with my VEPR-K, Larry with his reworked 300 buck Romanian rifle, and a PMC who was in the class with a pretty beat up rifle. I believe everyone else was using either 5.56 AKs or 5.45 AKs, with the majority being 5.56 AKs made by Arsenal.

Incidentally, some of the rifles had serious reliability problems with various ammo types. GotM4's rifle was a friggin death ray when it ran, but every now and then it would choke for various reasons. Early on the first day Vin had to mortar a round out of his deathray rifle, and a couple of other guys kept having problems with American Eagle brass cased ammo getting smushed by the rifle. Steel cased seemed to run better.

I'll let the AK tech experts tell you more about that because I have nowhere near the knowledge they do of the platform...but I can say that I was happy to be packing my VEPR-K in 7.62x39mm even though it was a heavy bastard and was slower to get followup shots with because of the lack of a muzzle brake.

Some of those guys were shooting AKs that just flat didn't move under recoil, and their targets showed just how beneficial this can be.

I was also thankful that I installed one of the Blackjack safety levers with the finger tab on it. Those things are awesome at helping to overcome one of the big ergonomic problems with the AK, namely the safety lever. I used the notched lever that can also operate as a bolt hold-open, but this feature is only useful as a means of locking the bolt open to show clear when you are on the range.

It is actually a detriment to try and use the holdopen notch when trying to clear malfunctions or reload the weapon.

The sweet setup seemed to be an AK with a good brake, an Ultimak gas tube, and a red dot optic. The guys packing that kind of equipment had consistently good performance...although some of the iron sighters did extremely well too. The guys who spent lots of time shooting AKs were really easy to spot. The guys with the neat doo-dads I mentioned were easy to spot by their targets.

Poor bastards who hadn't done much of anything with an AK and who didn't pimp theirs out were also pretty easy to spot by their targets too. (namely me...)

**Heavy Metal** · 03-12-07, 16:31

I used a reworked toilet hole stocked 7.62x39 romanian the first day and a half that had a surefire rail and an eotech.

The sight picture on the EoTech is just too high on this set up, an Aimpoint would be better.

**TOrrock** · 03-12-07, 17:16

John, you did fine man!

I also started out using a 3 point, an old CQB solutions (now Specter Gear), that I had. I figured it was the most "tactical" sling I had in my box o' stuff, so I put it on my SLR-106FR. It does screw with you when you're wearing a chest rig, I'd usually used it with a mag pouch on my belt. After listening to Larry give me a hard time about it, and realizing he was right, I switched to my RPK sling that I had on my back up rifle, my SLR-105A1. This is a simple cotton web sling, just like a standard AK sling, but a little longer.

I swapped it to my 106 and it worked very well. When I ran it out all the way, I could put it over my right shoulder and it hung the rifle in front of me very well, and I could move it over to my left side and there it would stay. I actually had it slung that way when I was firing Larry's Sturmgewehr.

I picked up a Vicker's 2 point at the class and I'm going to give that a try.

For chest rigs, I brought two. The one I used was a Specter Gear M1 Mk.1, which I've had for a while. I like it because it's not bulky, and will work with just about every magazine system I have, M14, M16, AK-47, and AK-74. I also slapped a Bianchi single pistol mag pouch on it, intended for the belt, and it was very secure and worked great.

http://www.spectergear.com/os_chest_rig.htm

The second rig I brought, but did not use, was a current Polish military 6 cell chest system. I tried it on a few times but felt it was too bulky for my needs. I am really happy with the Specter M1 Mk.1.

I used a SIG P226 in 9mm in a Galco Avenger on my belt. I've had the pistol a while, I used to shoot pretty decently with it, but I've let my skills deteriorate, especially dealing with the first double action pull. After that, I'm fine, but I was shooting high consistently on my first shot with it.

I ran iron sights, and did fairly well with them, although I'm really wanting to try an Aimpoint on my SLR-106FR. I have a side mount ready to go, but after playing around with GotM4's set up, I really like it, you can co-witness the irons with it.

The feeding issues that three of the guys using the 106's encountered look to be fairly easily fixed. I talked with Dinger on the phone today and he said that Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn already came up with a very easy fix based on Larry and my observations on what was going on during the class. I'm still going to try to talk to Arsenal and let them know what I observed.

John, you, my buddy Dave M, the PMC, the Navy guy, and Larry used 7.62x39mm AK's. Larry and the PMC used Romanian rifles, the Navy guy used a Chinese rifle, and Dave used a milled receiver Arsenal Inc. SA-M7.

I saw at least two guys, including sub-zero, using Arsenal Inc. SLR-105A1's (AK-74's in 5.45mm).

The rest of us used 5.56x45mm rifles, with two milled SA-M5's and the rest stamped.

Again, I had a great time, I'm really looking forward to taking more classes as I can, and learning all I can.

**Heavy Metal** · 03-12-07, 17:28

Templar,

Where can I get a longer RPK sling?

**TOrrock** · 03-12-07, 17:36

Originally Posted by Heavy Metal

Templar,

Where can I get a longer RPK sling?

Unfortunately, I haven't seen any for a while. You might want to give Ohio Rapidfire a call and ask if they have any slings for sale that came in with the RPK-74 kits that they are selling.

Also, as to magazines......

Guys, please, save yourself an immense amount of heartache and only use imported military magazines. Bulgarian, Russian, Polish, East German, Hungarian, Chinese, etc, it doesn't matter, they all work well. Stay away from US manufactured magazines, like ProMag or USA.

**C4IGrant** · 03-12-07, 18:39

Originally Posted by gotm4

Kicka** F***ing class. Larry Vickers and the not named instructor were both excellent. I learned a lot this weekend, a lot about shooting and moving and a lot about the AK. Blaster22s and my opinion of the 106 after speaking with Templar our thought is that the 5.56mm AKs need to be built on milled receivers. The milled 5.56 AKs used in this class ran 100%. I think all of the stamped ones jammed at least once. We think it's the flexing of the stamped receiver causing this. A 1.6mm receiver may work, but without Arsenal testing know one really knows. I had about 20 failures to fully chamber a round this weekend with my AK-106. This may be the very first class were this many stamped 5.56 AK were used in and pushed this hard. Most of the failures were with American Eagle 55gr FMJ, and less so with Guatamalan, Radway Green, and Wolf.

I think my 106 was the only one without a single malfunction (using M855). I also shot AE (60rds) through mine without an issue.

C4

**TOrrock** · 03-12-07, 18:43

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

I think my 106 was the only one without a single malfunction (using M855). I also shot AE (60rds) through mine without an issue.

C4

Neither mine nor Katar's had any issues what so ever, three ran like cheetahs and three had some issues with ammo to varying degrees, with GotM4's being the worst.

As soon as Dinger and Vinh switched to steel cased Wolf, their issues went away.

I was using '92 Radway Green SS-109 and Katar was using Federal American Eagle.

Again, I think it was a rifle by rifle issue, which should have a fairly easy fix.

**C4IGrant** · 03-12-07, 20:45

AK47 class: $375
Hotel/food: $170
Ammo $220

Former Death Dealn, Delta Force Operator hugging two fuzzy bunnies in public and posing with a bunny hat on....

PRICELESS!!!!

**Robb Jensen** · 03-12-07, 21:28

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

I think my 106 was the only one without a single malfunction (using M855). I also shot AE (60rds) through mine without an issue.

C4

Cool.

But something that cannot run on American Eagle has something wrong with it!
My serial number is 0312. As Tim said any 5.56/.223 AK ever used by any military was a milled gun. I think they're on to something there (maybe not, but it screams clue).

Katars had many more rounds through it than mine as well. Mine was on it's first 1k rounds at the class.