+1Originally Posted by M4tographer
This is the kind of story that SHOULD be all over the news but aside from seeing it here I doubt I will see/hear anything about it. Imagine that.
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Senior Member
+1
This is the kind of story that SHOULD be all over the news but aside from seeing it here I doubt I will see/hear anything about it. Imagine that.
I'm not fat, I'm tactically padded.
Tactical Commander Fast Action Response Team (F.A.R.T.)
Member
Well I dont know about you but I'm in CA...we are still hearing about Tiger and all his Ho Ho Ho's+1
This is the kind of story that SHOULD be all over the news but aside from seeing it here I doubt I will see/hear anything about it. Imagine that.
Senior Member
The only times I had any reaction to action on the ground was when our gun truck was nearly blown into basic components (happened several times) and when one of the Iraqi Army officers we were advising opened fire on a group of kids playing soccer. Luckily he missed but we were going ape shit in the truck yelling at him to stop. That incident turned my stomach. I wonder what your study would call a traumatic event? It is true that we all have different tolerances and coping mechanisms for the dark things that we can encounter out there. I just hope this kid can get the help he needs otherwise he is screwed for life (during WWI psychologist learned that PTSD doesn't improve with time if it isn't treated immediately).
Doc Williams
U.S. Army Combat Medic/Flight Medic Retired
1987 - 2013
Flight Medic Class 4-95
http://www.dustoff.org/
Senior Member
I think if I had to live in Oklahoma for an extended period of time I would turn to drinking and violence to cope as well...
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Excellent ending to the story. Good on the guy who disarmed him before anybody was harmed. I hope the guy gets the help he obviously needs.
Senior Member
+1 The Marine is lucky the armed citizen didn't just go ahead and cap his ass.
Last edited by CarlosDJackal; 12-21-09 at 08:47.
We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I
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MMMM....not sayin...but just sayin
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Voice commands should be a big a part of training for anybody who carries for SD in the civilian role... If he wasn't directly threatened by the Marine, it would have been a long, expensive couple of years for the guy...
Senior Member
I agree with you in principal but everyone who is carrying concealed is not an LEO and isn't used to using "verbal Judo". Also, I think with some people that this might actually escalate the situation and present more problems. If someone of a more dimunitive stature is trying to order a big bad guy around and they get a big "F you" then what? You've given the bad guy precious time to narrow the gap between yourselves and possibly endangered your own livelihood. If I'm drawing my weapon I would say the odds of me pulling the trigger are damn near certain, not always, but pretty darn close.
I would consider any person, whether .Mil or not, to be an imminent threat to myself and everyone around if they're blindly firing into the night in a populated area. Thankfully the person didn't shoot him and he can get some help but I'm not sure if I would've reacted the same way.
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Precisely my point. Voice commands should be used in regular training for civilians where unlike the military "if he is armed he is dead".
Based on this situation a drunk went to jail and not to the morgue, when you add the civil liabilities into a civilian shooting scenario it should be taught IMHO. Just because someone is armed doesn't mean that he is a direct deadly threat to you at that instant.
With training comes the knowledge of where that line is. A guy armed with his back to you is not technically a threat to you because you have the chance to retreat, if he turns and threatens you then its game on and he dies for that decision.
Remember your threshold for using deadly force is greater than LEO or Mil. There are many scenarios where you could encounter a person armed with a deadly weapon that would not justify deadly force. I would suggest speaking with a DA, judge and lawyer to clarify what the appropriate action would be based upon multiple real life scenarios.
There is a time for justifiable deadly force, but its not as easily defined for a civilian as one might like to believe. It's not just the criminal side you need to think about, it is also the civil side that can destroy your life.
As far as closing the gap, you bring up a scenario where YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK, take appropriate action. Based on the story you are already at the ready, it should not take you long to deal with the threat accordingly. If you can eliminate the threat without having to discharge your weapon, that is a best case scenario and one that should be strived for.
I do agree that if my weapon makes it out of its holster it is my intent to use it or it would not come out. However a level head might allow you to defuse the situation without having to use deadly force, sometimes your weapon can obtain compliance in the same manner it was in this case.
Just my 2 cents, but I am far from the smartest guy on this board...
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