Stopping Active Shooters

[R/Tdrvr]

Who cares? We are talking active shooter training/response. Carbines are nice for the second, and every other officer who shows up. But, if I am on campus, or around the corner when the shooting starts, the correct answer is to get my fat a$$ near the shooter and put rounds on him as quick as possible. If I can get my carbine out of the rack, fine. If not, I better be a good pistol shot. This is about mindset, not equipment.

Although, places that refuse to buy carbines and other equipment usually have administrators that are lacking in the mindset area. My agency has a clear expectation that you will go in, fast, and end the problem.

I agree, you want to get in fast to deal with the threat. But, IMO, I would want that carbine in case the shooter happens to be wearing body armor. Its entirely possible.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Did the Mumbia guys wear body armor? I would see where a lone gunman probably wouldn't have armor, but jihadists might because of better planning.

[R/Tdrvr]

Did the Mumbia guys wear body armor? I would see where a lone gunman probably wouldn't have armor, but jihadists might because of better planning.

Of course not all shooters will have armor. That's why I put it this way, "in case the shooter happens to be wearing body armor."

My thinking is in an active shooter scenario, you just don't know how a BG is going to be equipped. That's why I'd rather have the carbine too.

[LMTRocks]

It's best to try to stay out of the situation where LE is arriving when you're armed! South Carolina State Trooper Coates was gunned down by a drug dealer in 1992 with a .22 in his pocket. Trooper Coates was prior Mil and in excellent physical shape and a single .22 came through his armpit and ricocheted and pierced his heart. A few mins later other troopers were arriving on scene to find a couple of truck drivers coming to the scene while armed trying to help but the other troopers didn't know that. The murderer was hit 5 of 6 shots .357mag center of mass which unfortunately missed vital organs. If an officer asks you for help that's a different story but don't volunteer! To my brethren in LE: Always inform dispatch of your location when doing a stop or search in case you radio OFFICER NEEDS HELP at which point it hopefully rains police on your location.

[Tipy]

You would be surprised how many schools have armed officers assigned as permanent school resource officers from the local police dept.. Response will be a lot faster than most people realize with officers already on campus. One school district near where I live has three officers assigned to each high school.
Tipy

[John_Wayne777]

Virginia Tech had their own PD on site.

...the point being, here, that if an active shooter manifests unless the cops are by some chance in the immediate vicinity then the intended victims are basically on their own for at least 2-4 minutes...and in that time period a scumbag with a grudge against the world can rack up quite a body count.

School resource officers are great and may serve as a deterrent to some scumbags. The really committed ones will just make sure that the SRO is the first guy shot.

[PRGGodfather]

You would be surprised how many schools have armed officers assigned as permanent school resource officers from the local police dept.. Response will be a lot faster than most people realize with officers already on campus. One school district near where I live has three officers assigned to each high school.
Tipy

Unfortunately, with this current economy (at least in the PRK), School Resource Officers get cut first by police departments when our budgets get slashed by local governments. There are only so many pencils you can stop ordering even with a 5% cut.

With that cut, we will also lose valuable intelligence about juvenile gangs and other young idiots. We used to see those kids every day, so things will get WAY out of hand before we realize cuts across all departments is stupid. DVD and music stores are going belly up because of the interweb, and we still have libraries?

When we were kids, we didn't need cops on campus. That has changed.

JohnWayne777 is absolutely correct -- you're on you're own until the cops get there, at an average of one dead kid every 15 seconds. You do the math. We have to do these dog and pony shows people we have lost our way.

Our teachers need to understand they need to take an active role as first responders, if they really want to save our kids. I don't care if that means they arm or armor themselves. Of course, that will go over like a fart in church for the overwhelmingly libtard demographic present in today's teachers. I tell you, Obama and his ilk will be coming for them. I have no doubt of that -- it's about WHEN, not IF. And most of the apple polishers are in denial about that, too.

It may sound like heresy, but personally, I would rather see parks and libraries close before losing cops, and my family uses the local parks. Still, as a nation, we have already forgotten the whole point of collective government was the common defense, and all else are luxuries.

Anyway, as to the original topic -- while Patrol Rifle and Active Killers are two concepts which are certainly and correctly intertwined -- the TWO most important words for this topic are:

1.) SPEED
2.) AGGRESSION

And sometimes, that means you don't have enough time to get to your rifle. The situation dictates the response, NOT our preferences. Heck, I would prefer we didn't need cops at all.

Be safe,
Alan

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Of course not all shooters will have armor. That's why I put it this way, "in case the shooter happens to be wearing body armor."

My thinking is in an active shooter scenario, you just don't know how a BG is going to be equipped. That's why I'd rather have the carbine too.

Body armor was an excellent point, and a carbine is the perfect counterpoint.

I'd love to bring a carbine, and a friend with a carbine..

I think it is just a matter of time before jihadis start shooting things up here. It is just low tech and low resource enough to fit their operational models. That adds in a third level; from the gunman in a hostage situation, to an active shooters, to active shooters with probable explosives.

[PRGGodfather]

When the people who educate our children start thinking more like the passengers of Flight 93 -- we might stand a chance against the jihadis. The jihadis don't like resistance -- and simply, I'd bet my entire retirement they don't attack any schools in Utah. We have to give these folks permission to fight for lives -- even as most of them want someone ELSE to save the day.

The rest of the sheep? Well, one might suppose just getting some of them to say the word "killer" without pooping their pants is an incremental achievement. While these C-squares irritate to me to no end, they are the very folks we need to help -- because no else but cops are going to respond to this incidents.

We have spent too much time on the serve, and not enough on the protect. And we have too many overeducated assmonkeys who think their opinions are valid, even without a single firsthand fact or any life experience to support them.

The pussification of this country is our undoing.

[11Bravo]

snip...I'd love to bring a carbine, and a friend with a carbine...snip

Dude, Rules of a Gunfight, rule #2-
2. Preferably, have at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun... and a friend with a long gun.