Snowball fights & cops with guns.

[Bobert0989]

.... Luckily he isn't a Peace Officer in the Southern most states. Can you imagine what would have happened if he drew down in TX, FL, KY, or LA. His show of force would have probably been met by a show of arms from the citizens. That is why I say he should have shown some discretion and restraint.

Very true... Here in Richmond, if someone got out of their HUMMER in the middle of the sreet and drew a firearm, we simpletons would probably assume he/she were a mob member or something...lol. No telling how many people would've drawn down on him if that were to happen around this area. And THAT could escalate rapidly into a LOSE-LOSE situation.

~Bobby

[Bobert0989]

When has a Taser directly killed someone? Did I miss it on the news?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/18/taser.death/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/ny...5tased.html?em


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,493228,00.html


Just a few related incidents. Although most documented cases you find aren't the direct result of the taser, but what the reaction to the taser is, ie: falling through a window.

[John_Wayne777]

there is some story or another that has the police using excessive force. Either multiple officers beating up a civilian, killing them with a taser, or shooting them.

...and every time somebody with a permit shoots an armed robber he was really a good boy who was turning his life around until the mean bastard with the license to kill gunned him down in cold blood.

Hint: Everything the press prints is not true.

[John_Wayne777]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/18/taser.death/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/ny...5tased.html?em


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,493228,00.html


Just a few related incidents. Although most documented cases you find aren't the direct result of the taser, but what the reaction to the taser is, ie: falling through a window.

For pete's sake....

Let's take a look at that last one, shall we? What's the lead-in?

A man running naked in the street died after he was shocked with a stun gun by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies.

Now why would a man be running naked in the street? Experience dictates that people who exhibit that behavior are often partaking in the wonders of modern chemistry. Certain controlled substances, you see, cause the individual to get really hot when they take too much of it, which causes them to strip buck naked. The sight of a dude running around in his birthday suit generally prompts a call to the local constabulary.

When the local constabulary arrives, they generally find that the naked dude is not completely in tune with reality. Generally this is because, again, he took too much of a controlled substance and is now completely incoherent. They spend time trying to corner the naked dude and get him under control, which is usually a fight because while the guy may be screaming something about how he NEEDS the paper, he's still plenty capable of putting up a fight. While the cops are trying to get the guy under control so they can get him some medical attention, the controlled substance he took is wreaking havoc on his body. His heart rate is probably at a dangerously high level just running around naked because of the drug which isn't improved any when he starts trying to fight with the cops. Keep in mind that the guy is probably not new to the use of controlled substances, either.

So when the Taser darts fly, they are hitting a guy who is high as a bloody kite and already in a state of medical distress...yet if the guy kicks the bucket, the Taser is what killed him. It wasn't the fact that he had overdosed on a controlled substance (in and of itself a potentially lethal event), no...it was the TASER that killed him.

Believe it or not, people died in police custody before the advent of tasers in law enforcement. There is video out there somewhere of some 400 pound dude who was high out of his mind on some form of cocaine at a White Castle in Ohio. Somehow the local constabulary was summoned. When the dashcam takes over from the White Castle-cam you see the guy tell one of the officers that his momma taught him "this" as he tries to knock the officer's head off. So now the guy is in a fight with two cops and he's actually getting the better of it. Two or three more cops jump in and try to subdue the guy. They succeed on getting him on the ground...and then, with over 700 pounds of cop hanging on the guy, he actually gets back up. The cops finally get him down again and cuff him because he stops resisting.

A short time later (like 10 minutes or so) the guy kicks the bucket.

Did he die because the police worked him over with batons? Hell. No. He died because he was high as a kite, 400 pounds, had a piss poor diet, and pushed his already taxed system too hard in trying to whoop some 5-0 ass. Before the cops ever showed up he was on his way to the morgue (or a refrigerator truck as the morgue's drawers may not have held the guy). The decision to try and beat up 4 or 5 cops didn't help matters any.

A bunch of people croak every year shoveling snow for the same basic reason...overexertion. They push themselves too hard and they end up in a state of cardiac distress. If the methodology in assigning responsibility with the taser is followed in their example, we'd be blaming the snow shovel for their death.

So I'm afraid your news articles purporting to show that the taser directly caused someone's death don't actually accomplish that.

[Irish]

There is video out there somewhere of some 400 pound dude who was high out of his mind on some form of cocaine at a White Castle in Ohio. Somehow the local constabulary was summoned. When the dashcam takes over from the White Castle-cam you see the guy tell one of the officers that his momma taught him "this" as he tries to knock the officer's head off. So now the guy is in a fight with two cops and he's actually getting the better of it. Two or three more cops jump in and try to subdue the guy. They succeed on getting him on the ground...and then, with over 700 pounds of cop hanging on the guy, he actually gets back up. The cops finally get him down again and cuff him because he stops resisting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3-MrFOLXFs

[Bobert0989]

. . . . Although most documented cases you find aren't the direct result of the taser, but what the reaction to the taser is, ie: falling through a window.

This also pertains to the body's reaction to the electricity flowing through it, however amplified it may become due to their current state-of-mind or physical abilities.

I also stated that in MOST cases the taser isn't DIRECTLY responsible for the death, but does play a role. I'm not trying to start a pissing match over it, just pointing it out.

I don't have a problem with the use of tasers. I think they help more than they hurt, when used properly with common logical reasoning... and IF someone dies as direct result of a taser, it was THEIR decisions and acts that put them into the position requiring the use of force to subbdue them anyways. It should never be seen as an officer's fault if someone dies while they are trying to subdue them, as long as there was a reason to do so. Just like the big guy in that video, that was HIS fault, a direct result of HIS actions.

Now, tasing random people in the streets just for laughs, that's not justified use of the taser. Feel where I'm going here?

[Irish]

Where are the consequences for brandishing a weapon in DC?http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/lo...-87157162.html

A D.C. police officer who made international headlines after drawing his gun during a snowball fight should be suspended for 10 days, internal investigators have recommended.

Det. Michael Baylor didn’t fill out the correct paperwork after he stopped a man who he thought had tossed a snowball and “engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the reputation of the police force,” according to an internal police report of the incident.
Baylor attained international notoriety during a snowstorm on Dec. 19, 2009 when he passed through an Internet-organized snowball fight among residents. Driving home in his Humvee, Baylor’s vehicle was pelted with snowballs near the intersection of 14th and U Streets, NW.

Claiming that he was afraid for his safety, he drew out his service pistol. Someone in the crowd called 911 and someone else videotaped the incident, turning a neighborhood frolic into an international forum on police conduct.

After other officers arrived but didn’t handcuff Baylor, the crowd grew angrier, the internal police report shows, hurling more snowballs and insults. They also shouted, “You don’t bring a gun to a snowball fight.”

Amid the conflict, Baylor grabbed environmental lawyer Daniel Schramm and briefly snatched his identification, thinking he had tossed an offending snowball. Schramm was later released without charge, but Baylor is now being disciplined for failing to file a report on Schramm’s detention.

Among those who were most vocal in condemning Baylor was Chief Cathy Lanier, who said that Baylor’s conduct was “totally inappropriate” and vowed “swift action” and “discipline.”

Police union Chair Kris Baumann said Baylor was unfairly ridiculed.

“People were manipulated by this story,” he said. “Everybody rushed to judgment, including the chief. And you can’t do that if you’re the police.”

Neither Lanier’s spokeswoman nor city Attorney General Peter Nickles responded to requests for comment.

Schramm, the snowballing lawyer whom Baylor grabbed initially after he was pelted by snowballs, declined immediate comment.