Opinion Journal item on student preparedness and value of a degree

[Left Sig]

IT is definitely unique and probably one of the last true, merit driven fields.

Yep, but there is still a lot of politics if you work in a corporation, and merit is not necessarily what gets you ahead. As a self-employed or small-shop consultant, you are right.

For true merit based pay, commissioned sales is about all there really is. You sell, you get paid. Sell more, make more. But it's not easy, there are no guaranties, and many if not most people can't do it. But those that can are able to go pretty far no matter what their education level.

I'm not in sales, but I know people who are. It seems like a skill you are born with, or not.

[Outlander Systems]

Chemical, electrical, structural, and mechanical engineering pretty much require a degree, and in some cases a professional license which requires the degree.

I'm in civil, and I've pretty much maxed myself out, short of getting my P.L.S.

My degree is in CIS, which translates into pretty much worthless for the field of Land Surveying.

Which is why I'm hosed. I either go back to school, and then seek licensing, or consider a career change.

[SethB]

I think that Business degrees have value if they are in Finance or Accounting.

Management degrees should only be offered as double majors.

Similarly MBAs would be great ways to get MDs, engineers and lawyers prepared to run the financial side of their practice.

As for liberal arts, it all depends on what you do with it. I'm doing just fine with mine, and glad that I took it because I learned what I needed to know.

If I had it to do over again I would have focused in on Construction Management and/or International Relations.

But that's just me.

[chadbag]

liberal arts programs have value as a minor or a double major to an engineering, or other useful program like Computer Science or other ones that have been mentioned here.

Someone with a straight engineering or CS or "good" degree without a liberal arts minor or double major has less potential than someone with the minor or double major.

While you do learn vocational stuff, even in the engineering and other hard degree programs, what you learn is not what you use in the real world. But it shows competency in learning that sort of stuff so you can get real world experience in how it is really done plus it provides a basic foundation of skills that you build on in the real world.
For example, I was a Computer Science (CS) major/graduate. None of the stuff I learned in compiler class, operating system class, etc is really valid anymore with today's technological level of these sorts of things. But I did gain valuable insight into the problems in these areas and simple solutions which helped understand the problems better. And I gained a good understanding of basic algorithms and stuff which provided the foundation for real stuff to be built on that in the real world.

But the liberal arts minor or double major shows an expanded ability to study and think. If I were hiring to equally experienced people, one with a straight BS and one with a BS/BA double major or at least a liberal arts minor, I would probably hire the guy with the double major or minor as a more well rounded individual.

I was a CS/German double major with math and scandinavian studies minors. Because I ended up quitting school to go work for DEC and do night school to finish up with DEC paying, and then a final year of full time school on LOA to actually finish up, I was not able to complete the double major or the minors. But I almost got a German minor and a Scandinavian studies minor -- 2 classes short in each (and each minor required like 7-9 classes). I went pretty far in the math minor as well. But I did not finish them which I regret a little bit. But I did take a bunch of German and Scandinavian Studies classes and feel myself to be much more well rounded and enriched than those who were straight geek.

[Left Sig]

E-guns - that's a good point. All other things being equal, the double major or minor helps you stand out.

However, I would hire the person with the appropriate undergrad degree, and the right mix of experience and accomplishments. Once you get your first "real" job after your undergrad, the degree then becomes a sorting mechanism for future jobs - as in, do you have a degree or not, and is it in the applicable discipline - what's really important is what you have done with it.

Secondly, I would rather hire someone with a master's degree than a double undergrad or minor. I did the Engineering/MBA thing to diversify and expand my skills. That's more valuable in the long run than a double major.

[Gunner777]

My son took a bit different route. After high school he joined the Army Guard went through basic then enrolled in college and participated in ROTC in college. His junior year during summer he went through Airborne school at Benning.
I truly believe his decision to go through basic and then college made him more successful in college and matured him greatly. It also made him immune to a lot of the liberal teaching he encountered.
He transferred over to the reserves and is serving his second tour in Iraq now. His civilian job is a great one as well

[Shadow1198]

I never finished college, and I have procrastinated about going back and finishing. Some of the procrastination is due to the fact that I really don't think the degree alone would even do anything for me at this point. One thing is for sure, I wish the college I did go to had an Austrian economics based course instead of a bullshit run of the mill economics course trying to trick everyone into believing socialist principles. It would have saved me learning the hard way.

I have met a great deal of college graduates that don't have the fiscal intelligence or maturity to run a damn lemonade stand.

[Gunner777]

Shadow I agree. Schools are dumbing down the curriculum from grade school to college. After all everyone must be equal and nobody can fail or think they aren't number one.
It's like this business of everyone who participates in any school activity must be given a trophy or ribbon so they won't feel bad and have their little ego bruised. Sorry but it's just as important to know how to handle failure as it is to know success.