45 G.A.P.

[bearsdl]

I recently bought a Glock 39 (3.5" barrel). I am curious if anyone has done any ballistic testing with the self defense G.A.P. ammo that is currently available. Any expansion and penetration information on HST's, Ranger's, or GD's fired from a Glock 39 would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...

[Marcus L.]

The GAP uses .45acp bullets, so as long as the velocity of each grain weight is similar to its .45acp counterpart, the penetration and expansion levels would be very similar.

The GAP is a nice cartridge. Too bad it never really took off in popularity.

[woodandsteel]

FWIW, here is one comparison test that I found.

http://www.outdoors.net/site/feature...17+SearchTerm+

[99HMC4]

I was running Hyrdashocks in my G37 carry gun. Never had to "use" them but they work as they should plinking (expansion wise)....

[DocGKR]

When comparing well designed, robust expanding JHP ammunition, .45 GAP and standard pressure .45 ACP offer similar terminal ballistic results, although the GAP is running at higher pressure. If one compares .45 ACP loaded to the same pressure as .45 GAP, then the .45 ACP +P offers better terminal performance. If only non-expanding FMJ is going to be used then .45 GAP and .45 ACP are ballistically identical.

Like .357 Sig, .45 GAP brings nothing to the table that is not already available in other more widely available calibers.

[jmart]

The GAP wasn't intended to provide greater ballistics, it was intended to package45 ACP-equivalent (non +p) ballistics in Glock's smaller frame package. At the time of GAP introduction, the .45 SF's weren't yet in the pipeline, and even since their introduction the GAP frames are still smaller.

Whether or not this serves as real benefit is up for each to decide.

[kenb]

When I owned a Glock 38 in .45 GAP, I looked at DOC's list of recommended bullets in the sticky about self defense loads and found he recommended the Federal HST 230 grain JHP (P45HST2).

I believe the 230 grain HST in GAP (P45GHST1) travels at 880 FPS and the 45 ACP travels 890 FPS. Both of these are out of a 5" barrel. My G38 had a 4" barrel but a lot of GAP owners told me they used the 230 grain round in their 38's. I also think I know that at least 2 different state police agencies are using the 200 grain Gold Dots and are very happy with them.

You may want to get confirmation from DOC that a 3.5" barrel will give you satisfactory ballistics in a 230 grain round. It certainly does in a 5" barrel since DOC recommended it. I'd be interested to know if it gives satisfactory ballistics in a 4" barrel as well although I no longer have the G38.

[bearsdl]

When I owned a Glock 38 in .45 GAP, I looked at DOC's list of recommended bullets in the sticky about self defense loads and found he recommended the Federal HST 230 grain JHP (P45HST2).

I believe the 230 grain HST in GAP (P45GHST1) travels at 880 FPS and the 45 ACP travels 890 FPS. Both of these are out of a 5" barrel. My G38 had a 4" barrel but a lot of GAP owners told me they used the 230 grain round in their 38's. I also think I know that at least 2 different state police agencies are using the 200 grain Gold Dots and are very happy with them.

You may want to get confirmation from DOC that a 3.5" barrel will give you satisfactory ballistics in a 230 grain round. It certainly does in a 5" barrel since DOC recommended it. I'd be interested to know if it gives satisfactory ballistics in a 4" barrel as well although I no longer have the G38.

I read the same information on the Federal HST and currently carry that in the Glock 39. I am also interested to know if this round would perform well out of a shorter barrel. Some have recommended Speer GD 185 grain as a better alternative with its higher velocity. Results have also been positive with the GD 200 grain with le agencies.

Thank You To All for the Replies...

[WS6]

When comparing well designed, robust expanding JHP ammunition, .45 GAP and standard pressure .45 ACP offer similar terminal ballistic results, although the GAP is running at higher pressure. If one compares .45 ACP loaded to the same pressure as .45 GAP, then the .45 ACP +P offers better terminal performance. If only non-expanding FMJ is going to be used then .45 GAP and .45 ACP are ballistically identical.

Like .357 Sig, .45 GAP brings nothing to the table that is not already available in other more widely available calibers.

I guess I will follow-up on the second part of your post and ask about the 357SIG. I have read numerous stories where the agencies using it have had better results in OIS's than with the 9mm's they traded from, and have not heard a bit of complaint about it since TX State Troopers give up the .45 switched over. The US Border Patrol has, for a very long time, used light-weight/high velocity and reports a rather impressive track-record of effectiveness, enough so that they have not changed from their ways in several decades.

When agencies went from whatever, to the 5.7, we heard all about failures. It obviously showed itself up in the field. The same has not happened with the 357 SIG.

Further, the velocity makes it the best penetrator of car doors I have ever tested (except for 10mm and the like), much superior to the .45 ACP. Granted, my backyard shooting of a car-door is not "scientific", but then neither is the shooting of a car-door when some felon is hiding behind it shooting back.

Either way, the SIG round consistantly makes 12+" in gel in the lab through various bariers, and remains superior through sheet-metal from what I have seen, and the agencies that have gone to it have said narry a bad thing.

How does it not have something to offer over other calibers, if only in the realm of vehicle-material penetration?

*In most mediums, SD is important, but in sheet-metal/car-doors, I found SD to be irrelevant and velocity to be the best indicator of performance given similarly constructed bullets. Again, in my back-yard, not a lab.

___________________________________

Sorry for the hi-jack. Back on-track, if the 45GAP doesn't do worse than the .45ACP, then it does better, imho, because it can go into a smaller platform and accomplish the same performance. Looks like a "win" to me.

I read the same information on the Federal HST and currently carry that in the Glock 39. I am also interested to know if this round would perform well out of a shorter barrel. Some have recommended Speer GD 185 grain as a better alternative with its higher velocity. Results have also been positive with the GD 200 grain with le agencies.

Thank You To All for the Replies...

I do know that in testing the 200gr GDHP .45 ACP load has proven itself a very erratic performer in the IWBA 4-layer denim tests.

[Marcus L.]

I read the same information on the Federal HST and currently carry that in the Glock 39. I am also interested to know if this round would perform well out of a shorter barrel. Some have recommended Speer GD 185 grain as a better alternative with its higher velocity. Results have also been positive with the GD 200 grain with le agencies.

Thank You To All for the Replies...

I would personally stay away from the 185gr lead core load as it generally has poor penetration characteristics due to its low sectional density. Its sectional density rating is the same as the 9mm 115gr load and "usually" it will penetrate less that 12" in bare gel. In my opinion the best .45acp/.45GAP load is the 230gr load which has a lot of momentum to penetration through a wide variety of barriers as well as internal bone structure. The HST bullet design is especially good at reliable expansion, so the other element that you want is good penetration which you get with the 230gr load.