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"elieve that Ken's point is that for 80-90% of what a lot of SWAT does day to day the MP5 works pretty well. "
Exactly. And it might be closer to 95-98%
Last edited by Greg Bell; 12-31-09 at 19:13.
If you aren't armed when you take a dump in your own home then your opinion on what is a practical daily carry weapon isn't interesting to me.
The guys from Metro who ended the fight were actually armed with AR15's..."the cops at the hollywood shooting were armed with handguns and shotguns only correct?"
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Maybe things are different elsewhere in the country, but for greater than 50% of the SWAT call-outs around here, a carbine is a far better choice than an SMG.
Last edited by DocGKR; 01-01-10 at 00:05.
Lethality: For a very long time, a lot of well respected teams were doing just fine permanently killing people with MP5s. Having said that, I doubt anyone would argue that the 9mm round from a subgun has the same lethality as a properly selected 5.56mm round.
Body armor: At the ranges for which the MP5 is really intended, rapid accurate head shots are not much of a challenge... see how MP7s are being used currently OCONUS as further evolution of that concept. But realizing the BG has armor and switching to head shots (if you're not just making them routinely) takes more time than just shooting to the chest and not worrying about soft armor. As plates become more commonplace among evildoers, that equation might shift.
Range: Again, cannot argue that the 5.56mm is superior here.
Plusses in favor of the MP5 are maneuverability, size (especially suppressed), loudness (especially suppressed), and durability.
There are roles for which the MP5 is superior and roles for which the M4 and its ilk are superior. There's no rule that says every single guy on scene at a call out needs to have the exact same primary.
Last edited by ToddG; 01-01-10 at 11:55.
The MP5SD is a terrible choice for anything but fun at the range.
Personally, if I was faced with a situation that I can address with either the MP5 or AR15, I'd still choose the AR15. The reality is the AR15 can handle situations that the MP5 is suited for; but the same cannot be said of the MP5 for situations that the AR15 can handle.
A well-informed source tels me that after the Mogadishu incident of "Blackhawk Down" fame, most of the guys of the 160th SOAR ditched their MP5s for M4s both for effectiveness and compatibility with the rest of the military.
All our local SWAT team ditched their MP5s for M4s a half-dozen years ago because: (a) METT-T - some of our schools have hallways that are too long for the MP5, pistol, or the shotgun and (b) the customer HK provided was inadequate (actually, very poor - so poor that one agency recently replaced their HK USP .45s with Glock 21SFs). YMMV.
Last edited by CarlosDJackal; 01-01-10 at 11:49.
We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I
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