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I'm more confused now than when I posted the thread. The platforms I'M asking about zeroing are a 6920, 16 inch LMT, and a 10.5 LMT SBR. Using XM193 and iron sights.
Last edited by LRRP-87; 01-13-10 at 14:50.
Meters or yards, pick one, it doesn't make a significant difference at short ranges with infantry guns (non-magnified, non-accurized). I grew up with yards.
A carbine can't be zeroed for CQB. It's not possible,-barrel/sight relationship. The sights/sight would have to be on top of the barrel ala a pistol.
300m zeros are the reason so many bitch about 5.56 not getting the job done. The other is ammo. Average engagement distance has and always will be around 100-150 (what most people can see without magnified aid, especially a small target, like a man in the prone).
Ammo and barrel length play a slight hand in it, but honestly (and trust me, I've been in the tests at Crane and elsewhere), none of us shoot better than either. So don't get wrapped up with it, and don't use it as an excuse. You just need to practice more. 10" uppers with EOTechs and Aimponts shooting 55 gr.ball, 70 gr. TPX, and 77 gr. BLK Hills have killed way good with 100 and 200 zeros out to 200m with no problem. In fact, we all HAD to shoot over 175 with irons on the Navy qual at 200, not 25, with 10" barrels and 55 gr.!
100m zero-
never off more than 2.5" (barrel/sight relationship) from contact distance to 100m(i.e.- you can see and take a head shot at this distance and hit). Low 4" at 200. To take a shot at 200 without magnified aid you'll have to have a torso shot anyway (so that extra 4" will be there, and you have 200m to tell yourself to aim high a hair). 4" is acceptable considering the capabilities of the normal M4 (4 MOA), and the capabilities of the normal marksman.
200m zero-
Only a 2.5" difference either high (about at 100) or low (about at 250) out to 250m.
Here at TigerSwan, we are advocating a 200 because it fits for all our customers. Meaning that a military guy with be able to cover the entire seeable battlefield and get a kill shot, and a LE guy (who's engagemnet distance will most likely be 50 and less) will hit in his entire spectrum as well.
Bottom line - Either the 100 or 200 is a good choice, just not the 300. The bottom line on either zero choice is to know your holds at different distances.
Hope that helps,
I think the greatest benefit to setting your "true" zero at 200 yds is that you are at a facility where you'll likely be able to have actual confirmation where all the rounds are hitting out to that point. Yes, I am stating the obvious, but I know more shooters that use other people's ballistic data as crutches (sometimes with all the variables being different), and call it a day when they're on paper at 50 because it is an improved zero, and all their woes will magically go away from it. My only point here is that you should take the time to either use a 200 yd zero, or conversely a shorter range "improved" zero with confirmations on paper all the way out to where you want to be able to make your hits. For a lot of us, that means make the effort to schedule a day when you'll make the long drive to that 300 yard range that is just beyond your everyday driving distance. If you don't know what your own rifle does at a specific distance because you haven't actually tried it, you just don't know.... BTDT- lol.
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One of the side benefits of Randy Cain's carbine class is that, facility dictating, you will get a very well confirmed 200 yard zero. You get it on at 25, get it tight at 50, then go out to 200 and get it really tight, and then go back to 50 to reconfirm and then spend the next 2.5 days shooting at various distances figuring out relative holdovers/unders.
I agree that most people misunderstand the 50 yard zero and ideally should get out and field verify what that gives them at distance, but I also think that ultimately it doesn't much matter for the vast majority of shooters.
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