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Thread: Cop Disarms Burglary Victim for Her “Safety”

  1. #1
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    Cop Disarms Burglary Victim for Her “Safety”

    Leaving the victim handcuffed and helpless may have made Officer Rogers feel safer when she locked his Glock 19 in her cruiser while awaiting back up to clear the building; however, it put his life in jeopardy. If the burglar had still been around, the officer may have been able to fend for herself, but the productive citizen would have been a helpless target.

    VIN SUPRYNOWICZ: Handcuffed, disarmed for obeying the law

    Charlie Mitchener is a 61-year-old general building contractor with an office near Patrick Lane and Fort Apache Road in Las Vegas. He holds permits allowing him to legally carry concealed weapons in Nevada, Florida and Utah.

    Over the past three years, his office has been broken into five times. "Three of those occasions involved me interacting with Metro," he wrote to me recently. "Each of the occasions began the same: my introduction, my presentation of my Nevada drivers license and my concealed firearms permit. Prior to today, each Metro officer simply replied thank you, proceeded with his work and then when complete there was a conversation about firearms."

    Things were real different at 5:30 a.m, Jan. 3, however, when Mr. Mitchener called Metro to report the fifth break-in at his office.

    "Vin, I hope I did not see the future this morning," Charlie e-mailed me. "Today was drastically different."

    The responding officer was a lady cop, officer J. Rogers, badge number 13525.

    "Upon presentation of my (firearms permit), the officer asked if I had the weapon on me to which I replied yes. She then said to spread my legs and put my hands behind my back. I complied and she then handcuffed me. While doing so, she said that she wanted to make certain 'that we were all safe.' "

    Officer Rogers stripped Mr. Mitchener of the Glock 19 he was carrying, took the weapon and locked it in her patrol car.

    "Bear in mind that she had yet to clear my office (she was waiting for backup for clearing)," Charlie writes. "So, while remote, there was the possibility that the bad guys were still in my office and would come rushing out, finding me, to their delight, handcuffed. Apparently I was not included in her comment 'that we were all safe.' It is always nice when law-abiding citizens, particularly myself, are disposable.

    "An hour or so later, when she had completed her paperwork, she came back in the office; I was in the rear and did not see her enter. She came to me and said that she had put my weapon in the second drawer on the left in the receptionist's desk.

    "She then said that she could tell that I was upset with being handcuffed 'like a common criminal.' I explained that I was extremely upset and told her that it was out of respect to her that I provided my (firearms permit) and that the Second Amendment did have some meaning. She replied that the reason she did what she did was because she did not know if I was a bad guy or not. ... I thought to myself, 'How absurd, I apply by the law to obtain permits, and yell it from the housetop that I have a permit and am carrying, just as I presume all bad guys do.'

    "I asked if she was following procedure to handcuff me and remove my weapon to which she did not have a good answer, other than I was larger than her. ... It certainly reminded me of the stories in New Orleans after Katrina regarding confiscating weapons from the law-abiding citizens."

    Another officer told Charlie that, based on J. Rogers' badge number, she had probably only been on her own for less than six months and was probably not secure in what she was doing. "It certainly makes me want to provide all the information the next time my office is broken into," he adds.

    I talked to Charlie on Tuesday. He had called the concealed permit division that morning, and been referred to Internal Affairs, where he reports a detective told him, "It all depends on the officers, that if they think it's the safest thing to do they can do that. And he said it's best not to bring a weapon in this kind of situation."

    Ah. So after going through all the rigmarole required to obtain a concealed weapons permit, it's best if a business owner who is the first to arrive at his office in the dawn hours to find it's been broken into not carry a weapon? Where the hell would the cops suggest would be a better circumstance into which to carry our legal self-defense weapon -- a toddler's birthday party at Chuck E. Cheese?

    I contacted Metro about this incident Tuesday. Late Friday, a spokesman confirmed Mr. Mitchener's account as "generally accurate," stating the officer "acted in a way that was in the interest of her safety."

    Charlie Mitchener followed the law. He has trained at Front Site and with Tactical Response and continues to regularly visit the range. Yet, "In an instant, I am in handcuffs (at 61 years old, this was a first), and there were no bad guys in handcuffs with me, just the guy who thought he was doing things correctly," he writes.

    We should not be required to apply for any "permit" to carry a concealed weapon in the first place. Despite this, Mr. Mitchener did everything required of him by law, ordinance and Metro instructions.

    The officer handcuffed and disarmed him "so that everyone would be safe"? What a bunch of bull. If the burglar or burglars had emerged, they would have been confronted not by two armed law-abiding good guys, but instead by one small, frightened officer and a handcuffed and disarmed legal occupant. This rendered Mr. Mitchener "safer"?

    Please note that if Mr. Mitchener had not followed law, ordinance, and Metro request, if he had carried a firearm in his waistband without ever seeking a permit or informing the officer he had it, the tiny officer would have had no probable cause to disarm him, and he would likely have remained armed throughout the entire encounter. Thus, he was punished, degraded, and treated like a common criminal because and only because he attempted to follow law, ordinance and Metro's legally dubious "instructions."

    The cops don't get it. The Constitution does not say "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless such infringement makes an officer of the government feel safer." The biggest reason the American populace are armed was never to fight off bears or wild Indians but to make agents of the government feel unsafe -- really, really unsafe -- should they try to take away our rights. That's why a citizen militia is "necessary to the security of a free state."

    If these arrogant, uniformed employees of ours really want to treat us as the enemy, they may eventually get their wish, at which point they will discover they're vastly outnumbered -- and "backup" is never quite close enough to solve the problem they've created for themselves.

    America in 2025, gals: Keep at it, and it can be your own private Afghanistan.

    Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Review-Journal, and author of "Send in the Waco Killers" and the novel "The Black Arrow." See www.vinsuprynowicz.com/ and www.lvrj.com/blogs/vin/.

    http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/handcuff...-81088092.html
    Last edited by Submariner; 01-14-10 at 09:13. Reason: grammar
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

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    Please note that if Mr. Mitchener had not followed law, ordinance, and Metro request, if he had carried a firearm in his waistband without ever seeking a permit or informing the officer he had it, the tiny officer would have had no probable cause to disarm him, and he would likely have remained armed throughout the entire encounter. Thus, he was punished, degraded, and treated like a common criminal because and only because he attempted to follow law, ordinance and Metro's legally dubious "instructions."
    That is an interesting point, I don't know the real legalities here. In a big picture sense it would be interesting that a CCW holder is required to tell an officer that the are carrying, but a BG can ignore the question. Probably not totally relevant during a break-in, but could an officer walk down the street and ask people if they are carrying- and a CCW holder would have to answer, but everyone else can ignore the cop.

    Has arguing 2A with a beat cop ever worked?

    If that was the path she wanted to follow, it seems the more prudent thing would have been to disarm him, and then if you want to secure him, take him out to the car.

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    I hope she at least gets suspended from her duties and harshly reprimanded, it is things like this that make me trust the police less and less. I wonder if any of them realize that a law-abiding citizen is way more likely to announce his CCW, or even go through the process of obtaining one instead of some baggy pants wearing hood-rat gangsta with his "fol-five" shoved inches away from his nuts.

    I still support LE as much as anyone else here, but how do we maintain trust if there are officers that believe only they rate to have a firearm???

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    Lawsuit territory pure and simple. This man should contact the NRA and a good Attorney then proceed to file a lawsuit against the officer in question and the LVPD.

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    Back in 1991, I had just been made manager of the gun shop I worked at, been given keys and the security code, etc.

    I got a call from the security co. at midnight stating that the alarm had gone off and that there had been a break in. The shop was directly across the street from the VA State Police Headquarters, but criminals aren't necessarily the sharpest marble in the bag.....

    I grab my Beretta 92F and a couple spare mags and get over there as fast as I can. The county police had just gotten on the scene as I pulled up and as I identified myself, one of them asked "You got a gun?" I responded that I did. The same officer said "Follow me!".

    He put me at the back entrance of the building where the guy had driven a stolen truck through the loading gate, and with these words "Stay here and cover the back, he might still be inside and might make a break for it.", left me to go help his brother officers continue the search.

    When another cruiser pulled up and shined their spot on me, I slowly placed the Beretta on the deck and approached them with my hands open and visible, explaining who I was and why I was there. They said that they'd caught the guy hiding in the bushes on the State Police campus....and told me to go retrieve my weapon.

    So, different time, but I think the same thing would probably happen again here. We've got pretty switched on local LE.
    Last edited by TOrrock; 01-14-10 at 10:49.
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by decodeddiesel View Post
    Lawsuit territory pure and simple. This man should contact the NRA and a good Attorney then proceed to file a lawsuit against the officer in question and the LVPD.
    It's unlikely that a lawsuit would get anywhere. The courts would probably view an officer treating an armed individual with caution as a legitimate officer safety concern.

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    He has trained at Front Site and with Tactical Response
    (emphasis mine)

    I'd be nervous about being downrange too!

    In all seriousness, this officer screwed up. Hopefully someone in her office will fix the problem for the future. Probably not.
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    Lightbulb

    Happens a lot actually. No different than how some highway troops deal with permit holders on a traffic stop (right or wrong).

    Based on the minimal amount of information news articles reveal, I don't like to speculate, however...

    A) You have a "green" troop who was probably trained to disarm all gun carrying persons (criminals or citizens) during her training/FTO (which could point to a training issue regarding procedures when encountering legitimate persons who are authorized to carry).

    B) It's all about what she can articulate/how she felt at the moment in time in question - she's the first/lone officer on scene, presumably (again based on limited information provided by the article) much smaller in stature than her "unknown" contact/complainant.

    She may have felt it necessary to temporarily "detain" the person in question while verifying that this person was infact, the caller (and that he/she was clear of wants/warrants). Having a CCW doesn't mean the person carrying is exempt from having a warrant (although it IS very rare to see a permit holder have an active warrant in the system).


    Does this particular situation suck for the business owner? Yes. Should patrol have handled this differently? Yes.

    Hopefully the LE agency/admin will share this example with all of their troops in future in-house training. Generally speaking, the majority of patrol is very favorable towards permit holders...

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Wayne777 View Post
    It's unlikely that a lawsuit would get anywhere. The courts would probably view an officer treating an armed individual with caution as a legitimate officer safety concern.
    Why pay lawyers?

    There is an alternative: Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Citizen Review Board.

    Mission Statement

    The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Citizen Review Board (CRB) is an independent agency created to receive and review complaints of misconduct filed by any aggrieved person involving Las Vegas Police Officers and/or Corrections Officers. Misconduct includes any improper act, omission or decision directly affecting the person or property of an individual due to any violation of LVMPD Policies and Procedures.

    The Board is composed entirely of civilian volunteers whose purpose is to make objective determinations on the merits of every case and respect the rights of both officers and complainants.

    CRB members may recommend disciplinary action, if findings show that misconduct occurred, or may recommend additional training or changes in existing policy where warranted.
    Last edited by Submariner; 01-14-10 at 11:34. Reason: add: Why pay lawyers?
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

  10. #10
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    I've disarmed people with CCW's before but under different circumstances. Sounds like a training issue. I don't see it as being lawsuit worthy and don't think it would fly here in a Texas court.
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