Blitz_308's (Justin) Gunfight Tactics, Wounds and Recovery (Graphic Pics included)

[mnoe82]

Ive always heard the whole "If someone breaks in and you have to shoot them, make it a kill shot cause they'll sue you if you leave them alive" thought.

I'm curious to know if in this situation the BG has any ability to sue in civil court for damages? Or if that whole thought is total BS.

Also like to know what happened to the BG.

[500grains]

A bad guy can sue, but of course he has to prove his case. If he is dead, then it is harder for him to prove his case. His family might be alleging wrongful death or civil rights violations, but in most cases that does not go anywhere. However, it does not mean you will not have to defend yourself in civil court even if absolved of any criminal liability. Fortunately, most (not all) lawyers are not stupid enough to take such cases on a contingent fee basis, and burglars and their families are typically not in a position to pay cash for the substantial legal fees it would take to move a case forward.

[usmcvet]

You are shooting to stop the threat. Typically with a high center mass shot. That may kill them but that is not your goal the goal is to to incapacitate them. The make sure they are dead and drag.them back in the house is complete BS and usually comes together.

Ive always heard the whole "If someone breaks in and you have to shoot them, make it a kill shot cause they'll sue you if you leave them alive" thought.

I'm curious to know if in this situation the BG has any ability to sue in civil court for damages? Or if that whole thought is total BS.

Also like to know what happened to the BG.

[mnoe82]

His family might be alleging wrongful death or civil rights violations, but in most cases that does not go anywhere.

It just seems illogical to offer even the possibility of a civil suit to someone during the commission of a violent crime. Once you have decided to commit a crime like that, IMO you should lose some rights. Felons can't buy handguns, why can they sue for damages occurred during the felony act? Crazy times we live in.

[arizonaranchman]

Good job, you survived and took care of business. That's the thing that matters most. These incidents can be analyzed for months and years afterwards and tactics can be picked apart as to what would or would not have been a better way to do this or that. The main thing is to train, have a plan and be alert and prepared.

There are unlimited different scenarios in which a person may have to defend his/her life. As for me personally, being taken hostage or being disarmed are NOT options. Quick and decisive offensive action will put the enemy at the disadvantage of having to react to YOU rather than the other way around. ATTACK as soon as you are able and end it. The longer these things drag out, especially if you are being told to move, disarm, be tied up, etc the less likely you are to live through the incident.

When you're on the attack you're at a distinct advantage tactically. Once a suspect/dirtbag has elevated things to life/death situation then the gloves come off. Just because you get shot or stabbed doesnt mean you're going to die, just get that gun into action and kill the bastard is your goal.

Good job. You survived and are here to tell about it. Hope your wounds heal fully and quickly.

[arizonaranchman]

A few observations;

I think the initial inability to react was/is a training issue, as well as a mindset issue.

The OP appears to have been in "Oh shit, this is really happening" mode, which leads to a person being a bit stuck in the OOD part of the OODA loop.

Training, both range and FoF, greatly reduce this tendency (we used to see it in rookies when they first hit the street, now we don't anymore, due to the training we do in-house).


I concur that the time to move would have best been at the very beginning, bad guy with gun to side while wearing ski mask = shoot the shit out of him right now, in my book anyway.
Voice commands given in many robbery situations lead to shot good guys way too often, especially if things are close and one has no cover.
I don't think one is or should be required to give the bad guy the option of the first shot if the bad guys so chooses.



A high powered flashlight is always a good thing to carry.


Empty hand tactics may be what one needs at the moment to safely clear a way to deploy one's pistol.


I don't think the 1911 being carried was a real issue, it being so easy to shoot well may have led to the only hit on the bad guy being made. Other guys, such as a DA revolver, may not have been fired at all by the OP due to weakness in the hand precluding him being able to pull the trigger.


This incident is an example of why the whole "limp wrist" argument by some companies to explain their pistols not working is complete BS. One may be shot, down, shooting from a non-standard position, etc. The pistol should cycle in these circumstances, otherwise it is a range toy and not a combat pistol.




Read this for how I would prefer to hear a robbery in progress to end;


http://www.wsmv.com/news/22950700/detail.html
Officer Shoots 3 Robbery Suspects In Brentwood
Suspected Thieves Hospitalized After Attempted Hotel Robbery

POSTED: 6:10 am CDT March 25,2010
UPDATED: 2:54 pm CDT March 25,2010

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BRENTWOOD, Tenn. -- Three suspected robbers were shot by a Metro police officer in Brentwood early Thursday morning. Authorities said the men were conducting their second robbery of the night when they were shot and wounded.

Related: Images | Noon Report | Morning Report




Officials said three men robbed a group of people in the lobby at the Homewood Suites on Church Street in downtown Nashville at about 1:50 a.m. They escaped with two purses and one wallet.

The suspects were identified as Deaunte Carter, 23, Rory Gilmer, 22, and 20-year-old Antonio Leggs.

The thieves then got into a maroon van and drove to the Hyatt Place Hotel on Old Hickory Boulevard in Brentwood, according to police.

Officials said Officer Justin Fox, 35, and an undercover officer from another agency, entered the Brentwood Hyatt lobby at 2:30 a.m. They were working as part of an unrelated, ongoing investigation.

Police said the suspects ordered the officers to the floor at gunpoint, striking and kicking both men while threatening to kill them.

Before Fox went completely to the ground he pulled out his police-issued handgun, and fired on all three suspects in defense of himself and the other officer who did not fire a weapon. The suspects did not return fire. A handgun, dropped by one of the suspects, was recovered from the lobby floor.

According to authorities, the three wounded men then escaped to their van and drove north on Interstate 65. Police caught them and took them into custody near Armory Drive.

Carter and Gilmer are in critical condition at Vanderbilt University Hospital. Leggs is in stable condition. Police said they all face charges.

The two purses and wallet stolen from the victims of the Homewood Suites robbery were recovered from the suspects' getaway vehicle.

Fox, a 12-year police veteran, is on routine administrative assignment pending an investigation into the shootings.

I agree.

IMHO... It would have been best to go on the attack right there in the parking lot. He's pointing a gun at you and you've got the green light to take care of business. To let yourselves be herded into a home or room is a tactical disadvatage to you. Attack NOW and put him on the defensive. His reaction time is going to be long enough for you to get a round or two into him. Keep shooting til he drops or the threat ends.

A major thing to remember is SHOOT and MOVE, don't just stand there blazing back and forth at one another. Get that gun into action and be moving as you do it. You're a difficult target to hit when moving. If in a confined space this may only be a step or two, but it's better than just standing there.

We train to shoot at move heavily. It works very well and at typical gunfight distances hits are near 100% if you train extensively in point shooting and know your weapon.