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Thread: Got Testosterone?

  1. #991
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    Why we can't have nice things, TRT style. Kidding aside, this small study illustrates why the common schedule of 1 injection every 2wks with common esters used in the US is is sub optimal schedule for most men, and 1xwk a schedule that will result in steadier serum levels without swings above and below physiological levels, spikes in E2, etc. Now some will do small doses 2xw and or more as the "in" schedule, but frankly, I don't believe more than 1xw is required, and until I see convincing data otherwise, will continue to recommend 1xk schedules:

    Hormone profiles after intramuscular injection of testosterone enanthate in patients with hypogonadism.

    Endocr J. 2006 Jun;53(3):305-10. Epub 2006 May 19.

    Abstract

    To examine hormone levels after androgen replacement therapy (ART) in Japanese male patients with hypogonadism, nine Japanese male patients with hypogonadism (serum total testosterone (tT) or free testosterone (fT) levels of < or = 2.7 ng/mL or < or = 10 pg/mL, respectively; average age, 59 years) were enrolled. They were treated with 125 mg of testosterone enanthate by single intramuscular injection. Blood samples were collected on the morning of the day of treatment, pre-ART, as well as on days 1 to 7 and day 14 after administration. Serum levels of tT, fT, estradiol (E2), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH), and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were determined. On day 1 after administration, the mean serum levels of tT and fT were 7.62 ng/mL and 23.22 pg/mL, respectively. Serum levels of tT and fT on day 14 after administration were lower than their pre-ART values. One patient exhibited abnormally high serum tT and fT levels of 19.6 ng/mL and 44.4 pg/mL, respectively. Serum levels of LH and FSH began to decrease gradually on day 5 after administration. Serum levels of SHBG did not change throughout the observation period. Serum levels of E2 increased 1.7 times on day 1 after administration but returned to its pre-ART value by day 14 after administration. The dose of testosterone enanthate for male patients with hypogonadism requiring ART should be determined carefully because some patients exhibited high serum levels of androgen beyond the physiological range and gonadotropin was suppressed in all treated patients.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16710076
    - Will

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  2. #992
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    Here's a lengthy detailed review on the possible risks of TRT - for men and women - but for those who just want the take home: "The benefits of treatment of low testosterone levels with testosterone therapy in men and women substantially outweigh any risks, according to the current data."

    Testosterone and Cardiovascular Health

    http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org...824-8/fulltext
    - Will

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  3. #993
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    This thread has taken on 100 pages now and I have benefited from it quite a bit.
    I complained of a lack of energy and putting on weight that no amount of dieting seemed to take off four years ago. I went to my MD for a check up, had the blood work done and come to find out my Thyroid had pretty much just quit entirely.
    75 MCG's of Levothyroxin daily helped a bit, but my blood work also showed low T. My Doctor (Female, I don't know it that makes a difference) was extremely resistant to prescribing HRT. After working with her for way too long about this, I got another Doctor.
    Now I'm on Depo-Testosterone 200 mg/ml injections every other week.
    I have also worked on my diet. I'm now doing an intermittent fast 16/8 and I've been eating very clean.
    Broccoli, Kale, Spinach and mixed green leafy vegetables along with peppers, tomatoes and cucumbers etc. My main Carbs are from Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes and Quinoa (yeah, I know also a protein). Meats are Fish, Chicken and lots of eggs. So, that's clean and it doesn't seem to be restrictive enough for me to need a lot of "cheat" meals.
    After the first 25 pounds came off, I felt inspired to work out again. Now I am at the gym daily and have a total weight loss of 32 lbs. I feel much better, I can see and feel the difference every day. My blood pressure (as of 3/5/18) has lowered significantly. At one time my original Dr. wanted me on BP meds, it now has lowered to 104/73
    The lessons I have learned are;
    You have to educate yourself.
    If your Doctor wont work with you find one that will.
    Diet and exercise and experimentation with both are key.
    You can read this stuff all day long, but if you dont get up and move, it's not going to happen.

  4. #994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    This thread has taken on 100 pages now and I have benefited from it quite a bit.
    I complained of a lack of energy and putting on weight that no amount of dieting seemed to take off four years ago. I went to my MD for a check up, had the blood work done and come to find out my Thyroid had pretty much just quit entirely.
    75 MCG's of Levothyroxin daily helped a bit,
    And did what for your thyroid levels via TSH/t4/t3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    but my blood work also showed low T. My Doctor (Female, I don't know it that makes a difference) was extremely resistant to prescribing HRT. After working with her for way too long about this, I got another Doctor.
    Now I'm on Depo-Testosterone 200 mg/ml injections every other week.
    Per this lengthy thread and study posted just recently above, sub par schedule, but a start at least. What were levels pre treatment? Full panel of just total T?

    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    I have also worked on my diet. I'm now doing an intermittent fast 16/8 and I've been eating very clean.
    Broccoli, Kale, Spinach and mixed green leafy vegetables along with peppers, tomatoes and cucumbers etc. My main Carbs are from Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes and Quinoa (yeah, I know also a protein). Meats are Fish, Chicken and lots of eggs. So, that's clean and it doesn't seem to be restrictive enough for me to need a lot of "cheat" meals.
    After the first 25 pounds came off, I felt inspired to work out again. Now I am at the gym daily and have a total weight loss of 32 lbs. I feel much better, I can see and feel the difference every day. My blood pressure (as of 3/5/18) has lowered significantly. At one time my original Dr. wanted me on BP meds, it now has lowered to 104/73
    The lessons I have learned are;
    You have to educate yourself.
    If your Doctor wont work with you find one that will.
    Diet and exercise and experimentation with both are key.
    You can read this stuff all day long, but if you dont get up and move, it's not going to happen.
    Excellent AAR's of truth
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

    www.OptimalSWAT.com


    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  5. #995
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    Will;
    Because of a work schedule I was in a rush and didn't see the last results. I went in for the blood work, got my prescription and got on my flight. I didn't get to see the Doctor because of scheduling issues, so I didn't get the T results as I wanted. Now that I'm back in town after a month and a half out on the road, I will make an appointment and discuss this topic further.
    I need to make a point of getting copies of this stuff to bring home to study and compare.
    The big Ah Ha moment for me was discovering the link between Testosterone and Thyroid. My understanding now is that for some people, treating one without the other may be lead to less than desirable results, such as I experienced.
    From what I remember the original Thyroid results were that I was not producing at all. My Thyroid had essentially "died". My T results were in the bottom of the Low/Average for my age group. That's rather vague, but I will get the numbers ASAP.
    Thanks.

  6. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    Will;
    Because of a work schedule I was in a rush and didn't see the last results. I went in for the blood work, got my prescription and got on my flight. I didn't get to see the Doctor because of scheduling issues, so I didn't get the T results as I wanted. Now that I'm back in town after a month and a half out on the road, I will make an appointment and discuss this topic further.
    I need to make a point of getting copies of this stuff to bring home to study and compare.
    The big Ah Ha moment for me was discovering the link between Testosterone and Thyroid. My understanding now is that for some people, treating one without the other may be lead to less than desirable results, such as I experienced.
    From what I remember the original Thyroid results were that I was not producing at all. My Thyroid had essentially "died". My T results were in the bottom of the Low/Average for my age group. That's rather vague, but I will get the numbers ASAP.
    Thanks.
    Once things settle down, I'd recommend you have discussion with doc as to optimize treatment based on the intel in this thread. Good luck
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

    www.OptimalSWAT.com


    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  7. #997
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    I went to see my doc at the VA today. I’ve had muscle spasms and bad back pain for two weeks. After an exam he ordered ordered X-Rays. He called me as I was driving home to tell me I have compression fractures in the thorasic area of my spine. Maybey I can get them to prescribe anastrozole now.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  8. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    I went to see my doc at the VA today. I’ve had muscle spasms and bad back pain for two weeks. After an exam he ordered ordered X-Rays. He called me as I was driving home to tell me I have compression fractures in the thorasic area of my spine. Maybey I can get them to prescribe anastrozole now.
    Due to the fractures? I don't think they will see the two as connected.
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  9. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Due to the fractures? I don't think they will see the two as connected.
    I am certainly not an expert. I was trying to read up on osteoporosis. I have hypogonadism, caused by chemo in 2004. I've been on T since then. I've had hairy cell leukemia twice and chemo twice. Last night I read low t and an increase in estrogen are risk factors for men getting osteoporosis. I read an article last night that I can not find. I mentioned the importance of controlling estradoil to help prevent osteoporosis.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    I am certainly not an expert. I was trying to read up on osteoporosis. I have hypogonadism, caused by chemo in 2004. I've been on T since then. I've had hairy cell leukemia twice and chemo twice. Last night I read low t and an increase in estrogen are risk factors for men getting osteoporosis. I read an article last night that I can not find. I mentioned the importance of controlling estradoil to help prevent osteoporosis.

    Hmmm, well, no reason not to print that out or email to docs as a reason you need to manage high E2 levels. #1 way to lower E2, is to lose weight. What's your BMI and or Bf% these days?
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    Performance/Fitness Advice For the Tactical Community

    www.OptimalSWAT.com


    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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