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Thread: Got Testosterone?

  1. #1081
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    Well, that's interesting. I was popping ibuprofen like candy for many years after injuring my lower back...

  2. #1082
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    So, we come full circle to T potentially being used to treat some forms of prostate cancers:

    "Rationale for Using Supraphysiologic Testosterone to Treat Castration-Resistant Prostate Cancer.”

    We have known for decades that androgen deprivation offers remarkable efficacy and palliation for men with advanced prostate cancer. Yet, soon after Charles Huggins Nobel Prize-winning discovery, many case series started emerging, describing paradoxical benefits of testosterone supplementation for patients with prostate cancer.1,2 These clinical observations seem so counterintuitive given that androgen deprivation therapy is the hallmark of treatment for advanced prostate cancer. Yet, there may be supportive biological rationale to this surprising observation.

    Cont:

    https://www.urotoday.com/clinical-tr...yDJb1V8O1o_wWk
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  3. #1083
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    Important study finding here. Those on T did not go onto type II diabetes, had lower rates of CVD, etc compared to untreated:

    Testosterone Therapy in Men With Hypogonadism Prevents Progression From Prediabetes to Type 2 Diabetes: Eight-Year Data From a Registry Study

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE Type 2 diabetes (T2D) is a public health threat. Prediabetes represents a window of opportunity for intervention to prevent T2D. Men with T2D and prediabetes often have low testosterone. Since testosterone improves glycemic control in T2D, we investigated whether testosterone therapy (TTh) in men with hypogonadism and prediabetes prevents progression to T2D.

    RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS Three hundred sixteen men with prediabetes (defined as HbA1c 5.7–6.4%) and total testosterone levels ≤12.1 nmol/L combined with symptoms of hypogonadism were analyzed. Two hundred twenty-nine men received parenteral testosterone undecanoate (T-group), and 87 men with hypogonadism served as untreated control subjects. Metabolic and anthropometric parameters were measured twice yearly for 8 years.

    RESULTS HbA1c decreased by 0.39 ± 0.03% (P < 0.0001) in the T-group and increased by 0.63 ± 0.1% (P < 0.0001) in the untreated group. In the T-group, 90% achieved normal glucose regulation (HbA1c <5.7%). In the untreated group, 40.2% progressed to T2D (HbA1c >6.5%). TTh was also associated with significant improvements in fasting glucose, triglyceride:HDL ratio, triglyceride-glucose index, lipid accumulation product, total cholesterol, LDL, HDL, non-HDL, triglycerides, and Aging Males’ Symptoms (AMS) scale. Significant deterioration in all these parameters was seen in the untreated group. Mortality was 7.4% in the T-group and 16.1% in the untreated group (P < 0.05). The incidence of nonfatal myocardial infarction was 0.4% in the T-group and 5.7% in the untreated group (P < 0.005).

    CONCLUSIONS Long-term TTh completely prevents prediabetes progression to T2D in men with hypogonadism and improves glycemia, lipids, and AMS score. TTh holds tremendous potential for the large and growing population of men with prediabetes and hypogonadism.

    cont;

    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con...JktHA7ytYOuS3Y
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  4. #1084
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    Will, don't remember which thread we just chatted on. Wanted to add this. The Reno VA, is listed top tw, in the nation. White City Medford Or, scum of the earth workers their, lazy useless. I use to get police escorts their, cuz I scared the Dr's. They almost killed me three times. All I did was tell the Dr's, chief of medicine, I'd kill each of them before they killed me. Pain is a powerful thing.

    Luckily I race sailboats here in Klamath falls with several Dr's, Who came to my rescue. A lot of above and beyond work went into discovering my low testosterone. Several blood tests. While heavy at the time, the dr's were amazed at my blood work results.

    Good genes, perhaps. Anyway, I was doing the I'm thing every other week, found myself running low, th second week befor T time. So they bumped me back to every week, with 1/2 dose as every two weeks. So I still get I think 2ML, just 1 ML a week.

    My Dr's are exceptional, they have case loads of a humdred vets per, yet took the time to figure this out for me. What I learned is their is no " one solution" we are each individual's, each need to be mapped for,cause effect, and then a med plan developed. Admittedly their is some adjustment time, but these Dr's, got it done.

    They tell me my case is a really tough one, as sadly I do opiates daily for pain, will for the rest of my life. The up side, I don't feel the oxy, in my head. My pain goes away, and I can do what I once did as a younger man. I'm saddled to both T and Opiates the rest of my life. The concern was orients and T if a faction was possible. Apparently for,me it's not, but they take my blood every other month. The other comcern was I was a cop, and got hep C from dead people's blood all over me. They were concerned about pain meds, along with hep C and T. I've done the Harvoni program and now only show hep C antibodies. Basically cured

    I have two more major surgeries mid back, and lower back. I tumbled off of a very steep mountain after I short stepped a rattle snake on a goat trail.

    After reading your contributions here regarding T, I'm fascinated, haven't really done serious review. I have not experienced mood swings, and I chase my wife around the house like we were in our twenties again, perpetual hard on. Frankly I love it!

    She's a Norwegian, blonde 5.6, 120 at 61 fricking hot. Retired public school teacher. Regardless, she puts up with it. Gives as good as she's getting. She's was my Ex wife's roommate, and one of my best friends girlfriends throughout high school and college. We re met after I exited the navy, and she was student teaching, 38 years ago.

    My energy levels thru the roof. I'm only swing lite kettle weights to keep my back muscles loose, and I live in the shower, hot water is my friend. Without it my muscles in the shoulder region are so tight they pull themselves. Even swing ten pound weights my muscles are booming, makes no sense to me. It is what it is.

    Thank you for the return email, I appriciate your contribution here on M4. If I had to pick just one guy for their contribution your him.

    If you,have questions feel free to ask, I'm a open book.

    Good day.

  5. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Williams View Post
    Will, don't remember which thread we just chatted on. Wanted to add this. The Reno VA, is listed top tw, in the nation. White City Medford Or, scum of the earth workers their, lazy useless. I use to get police escorts their, cuz I scared the Dr's. They almost killed me three times. All I did was tell the Dr's, chief of medicine, I'd kill each of them before they killed me. Pain is a powerful thing.

    Luckily I race sailboats here in Klamath falls with several Dr's, Who came to my rescue. A lot of above and beyond work went into discovering my low testosterone. Several blood tests. While heavy at the time, the dr's were amazed at my blood work results.

    Good genes, perhaps. Anyway, I was doing the I'm thing every other week, found myself running low, th second week befor T time. So they bumped me back to every week, with 1/2 dose as every two weeks. So I still get I think 2ML, just 1 ML a week.

    My Dr's are exceptional, they have case loads of a humdred vets per, yet took the time to figure this out for me. What I learned is their is no " one solution" we are each individual's, each need to be mapped for,cause effect, and then a med plan developed. Admittedly their is some adjustment time, but these Dr's, got it done.

    They tell me my case is a really tough one, as sadly I do opiates daily for pain, will for the rest of my life. The up side, I don't feel the oxy, in my head. My pain goes away, and I can do what I once did as a younger man. I'm saddled to both T and Opiates the rest of my life. The concern was orients and T if a faction was possible. Apparently for,me it's not, but they take my blood every other month. The other comcern was I was a cop, and got hep C from dead people's blood all over me. They were concerned about pain meds, along with hep C and T. I've done the Harvoni program and now only show hep C antibodies. Basically cured

    I have two more major surgeries mid back, and lower back. I tumbled off of a very steep mountain after I short stepped a rattle snake on a goat trail.

    After reading your contributions here regarding T, I'm fascinated, haven't really done serious review. I have not experienced mood swings, and I chase my wife around the house like we were in our twenties again, perpetual hard on. Frankly I love it!

    She's a Norwegian, blonde 5.6, 120 at 61 fricking hot. Retired public school teacher. Regardless, she puts up with it. Gives as good as she's getting. She's was my Ex wife's roommate, and one of my best friends girlfriends throughout high school and college. We re met after I exited the navy, and she was student teaching, 38 years ago.

    My energy levels thru the roof. I'm only swing lite kettle weights to keep my back muscles loose, and I live in the shower, hot water is my friend. Without it my muscles in the shoulder region are so tight they pull themselves. Even swing ten pound weights my muscles are booming, makes no sense to me. It is what it is.

    Thank you for the return email, I appriciate your contribution here on M4. If I had to pick just one guy for their contribution your him.

    If you,have questions feel free to ask, I'm a open book.

    Good day.
    Thanx, I try to give what I can to the thin blue and green line current or retarded. All things considered, sounds like you're doing well by your docs. While it's a massive intel dump, reading this thread is worth it if you wanna get into the weeds on the topic. Also, rarely appreciated by most docs, T appears essential to those with a CSI injuries:

    https://brinkzone.com/testosterone-a...-injuires-sci/
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  6. #1086
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    11 years long, and the group getting the TRT not only saw improvements in BMI and other measures, but a lower overall mortality and incident major adverse cardiovascular events:

    Differential effects of 11 years of long-term injectable testosterone undecanoate therapy on anthropometric and metabolic parameters in hypogonadal men with normal weight, overweight and obesity in comparison with untreated controls: real-world data from a controlled registry study


    International Journal of Obesity (2020)Cite this article

    Abstract
    Background and significance

    Obesity is a chronic disease, warranting long-term medical intervention. We evaluated effects of testosterone (T) therapy (Th) in men with T deficiency with normal weight, overweight and obesity on anthropometric and metabolic parameters, compared with untreated men.
    Methods

    Hypogonadal men (n = 823) with total T ≤ 12.1 nmol/L (age: 60.6 ± 7.0 years) participated in an ongoing registry study. Among these men 474 (57.6%) were obese, 286 (34.8%) overweight and 63 (7.7%) had normal weight. T undecanoate injections were administered to 428 men and 395 remained untreated. Anthropometric and metabolic parameters were measured at least twice a year and changes adjusted for confounding factors to account for baseline differences between groups.
    Results

    Long-term TTh in hypogonadal men, irrespective of weight at baseline, produced improvements in body weight, waist circumference (WC) and body mass index (BMI). Furthermore, TTh decreased fasting blood glucose and HbA1c and improved lipid profiles. Gradual decreases in blood pressure (systolic and diastolic) and pulse pressure occurred in men treated with T in each group. Marked reductions in mortality and major cardiovascular events were recorded in men receiving TTh.
    Conclusions

    Our findings demonstrate that TTh produces reductions in weight, WC, and BMI. There were 77 (19.5%) deaths in the untreated groups and 23 (5.4%) in the T-groups. Based on these findings we suggest that long-term TTh in overweight and obese hypogonadal men produces progressive and sustained clinically meaningful weight loss and that TTh may contribute to reductions in mortality and incident major adverse cardiovascular events.

    Full paper:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-019-0517-7?
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    More reasons to limit those nsaids boys! use of nsaids may be one of various factors we have seen a drop in T levels in men over the past decades. Use them sparing and only as needed:

    Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce a state of compensated hypogonadism

    PNAS January 23, 2018 115 (4) E715-E724;

    Significance

    Concern has been raised over declining male reproductive health in humans. Our study addresses this issue by extending data showing antiandrogen effects of analgesics and suggests that such compounds may be involved in adult male reproductive problems. Using a unique combination of a randomized, controlled clinical trial and ex vivo and in vitro approaches, we report a univocal depression of important aspects of testicular function, including testosterone production, after use of over-the-counter ibuprofen. The study shows that ibuprofen use results in selective transcriptional repression of endocrine cells in the human testis. This repression results in the elevation of the stimulatory pituitary hormones, resulting in a state of compensated hypogonadism, a disorder associated with adverse reproductive and physical health disorders.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/4/E...dP2h_gn5Wma_fE

    Will,

    Interesting study. What do you recommend for headaches and other aches and pains instead of ibuprofen? Is Tylenol a good alternative or does it cause problems as well?

    Dman514

  8. #1088
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    The ignorance of the medical community is still prevalent. Last spring I was tested for low T as I was starting to experience many of the symptoms and had a serum T level of 695, the GP and endocrinologist both said I was fine.

    Fast forward to a few weeks ago and my T level is now at 417 and the symptoms have gotten significantly worse and more symptoms have appeared, again my PCP doesn’t want to treat me as I’m still in the “normal range” and said all the usual nonsense about TRT like increase cancer risks and all that. she wants me to come in to see her again before she will give me a referral for an endocrinologist (male one this time) but I have also reached out to a male hormone clinic to try and cut thru the BS.

    I wish Dr’s stopped relying on an early 1900’s study that had a sample size of 1.

  9. #1089
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    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    The ignorance of the medical community is still prevalent. Last spring I was tested for low T as I was starting to experience many of the symptoms and had a serum T level of 695, the GP and endocrinologist both said I was fine.

    Fast forward to a few weeks ago and my T level is now at 417 and the symptoms have gotten significantly worse and more symptoms have appeared, again my PCP doesn’t want to treat me as I’m still in the “normal range” and said all the usual nonsense about TRT like increase cancer risks and all that. she wants me to come in to see her again before she will give me a referral for an endocrinologist (male one this time) but I have also reached out to a male hormone clinic to try and cut thru the BS.

    I wish Dr’s stopped relying on an early 1900’s study that had a sample size of 1.
    I would not treat you at those levels either, but that's one small aspect of what should be tested, along with free T (most important), E2, and SHBGs minimum to actually get a real picture of what your T status is. That's like just testing TSH to see thyroid status, which they do all the time and it's poor medicine and weak sauce that leaves many feeling terrible. There's simply no reason for it.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 07-10-22 at 16:27.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  10. #1090
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    I would not treat you at those levels either, but that's one small aspect of what should be tested, along with free T (most important), E2, and SHBGs minimum to actually get a real picture of what your T status is. That's like just testing TSH to see thyroid status, which they do all the time and it's poor medicine and weak sauce that leaves many feeling terrible. There's simply no reason for it.
    The free T is at 7.2, They didn’t test those other things. Crappy mood swings when I used to be as even keeled as they come, always tired, mental fog, practically no sex drive, no desire to get back to lifting/self improvement, cholesterol bad and overall shooting up, good dropping,

    I hope the clinic and or endocrinologist is able to figure out what needs to be done to help get me on the right track and back to being healthy

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