Automobile = cover or bullet magnet?

[Business_Casual]

The long thread on handgun ammunition and penetration testing has me wondering about cars again.

The question is - the automobile, is it cover/concealment or a bullet magnet? I am certain that it is actually both but when is it the former and when is it the latter? And how can you tell? What are some of the indicators? What about where you are in the car - outside behind the engine or inside next to the door? I also think the sort of weapon that is being used against you changes things as well.

M_P

[John_Wayne777]

I think it depends entirely on the context. For the average citizen or police officer inside CONUS where the typical gunfight is close-range, is probably done with handguns, and is generally over in a relatively small number of shots, the engine compartment of the vehicle would qualify as cover at least long enough to resolve the problem. If, however, you're rolling in a PSD convoy in Iraq and you're ambushed by a bunch of guys with PKMs and RPGs...well...the stationary vehicle probably isn't cover, or at least won't be for very long.

[RogerinTPA]

From front to rear, because of the engine block, I'd say yes. From the side, again from behind the engine block or wheels, I'd say yes, especially if rifle ammo is involved.

[mkaeding]

Also see Paul Howe's article raising several car as cover issues:

http://www.combatshootingandtactics....f_cover_07.pdf

[RWK]

Is the vehicle still mobile?
Is the vehicle your best or only available cover?
What kind of vehicle do you have? Armored car or Prius?
Is effective fire being laid on you? Rounds hitting the car and/or keeping you from moving away from it?
What are you being shot at by? Handgun? Rifle? RPK?

[John_Wayne777]

Also see Paul Howe's article raising several car as cover issues:

http://www.combatshootingandtactics....f_cover_07.pdf

That's a great document. Thanks for posting it.

[mkaeding]

Don't mention it. I take more than I give from this site. Thanks to you all.

[Business_Casual]

I used to drive down Dolly Madison Highway everyday so I think about Mir Aimal Kasi a lot. I've always wondered, if it happens again, do you leg it out of the car? Do you try to run him over? Do you stay in the car and return fire through the windshield? Get under it and try for his legs?

What's the wrong thing to do? I appreciate that CSAT article, that is a good reminder to not crowd cover.

M_P

[rickp]

Moder Pirate,
John Wayne said it best. It depends on your environment and what you’re being shot at with.

Personally in my experience i think they tend to be bullet magnets and at the first chance I get to get away from them I do. As a rule of thumb I just think they buy one time to evaluate your location/situation and better cover options around you. Even if fully armored the vehicle can still be vulnerable if being shot at with AP ammo. I've seen it, it wasn't much cover trust me. It's not like Hollywood as usual.

R.

[sff70]

Random comments:

Drive away if you can.

If you have to fight, get out quick.

There is very little cover in a vehicle.

Stay back if you can (Paul Howe's article shows why).

When using a vehicle for cover/concealment, you are easily and quickly outflanked.

Everyone talks about using the "engine block" for cover. Anyone take a good look at your engine compartment lately? Engines aren't as big as they used to be.

Fetal prone using the wheels (esp the front wheels) is not a horrible way to use the vehicle as cover.

It is very easy for one to use an inert weapon to practice techniques relating to fighing from within and from around vehicles. Have a partner play the opfor role to keep you honest.