Any runners on here? need shoe recommendations/advice

[Kyle Defoor]

6 months to relearn how to run.

A year or so to get to that mileage but I've been running my whole life.

I don't stretch, warmup, cooldown, nothing. The reason is I believe that stretching causes minor injuries and soreness. I also don't need to because I'm never sore afterwards. I attribute this to the minimal shoes and technique.

If you want to see the perfect midfoot runners, go to a local playground and watch a 3-4 year old run. To me, that's proof that the shoes are the culprit.

Humans are actually the perfect running machine in regards to distance . Nothing on earth is even close.

Notice the shoes Bannister wore?, Prefontaine? All the Kenyans?

Now, all that being said. If your a big guy, nothing may help your running. Just accept it. Kinda like I'll never be a power lifter.

[spamsammich]

I'm a heavy guy for my size with a slight tendency to overpronate and I've had good results with Asics Nimbus 10s when I get around to training for 5k runs. I've run with them on cedar bark trails (don't recommend), pavement, and hard sand and they've been pretty good and my usual shin splints are a thing of the past. I used to wear Nike and NB shoes, but much prefer the Asics. I'd like to give NB another shot if I can find somebody with experience to prescribe a pair.

[ryanm]

I agree with heel striking being an issue, also agree that re-learning to run will take a long time.

I think one of the issues with military fitness is training to run with a load. This tends to force the heel strike method even more with all the weight shifted rear. Mechanically, running with a pack really does a lot of negative things and reinforces bad habits.

I'll try to find the articles regarding the issue of humans and distance running. I had an anthro class that went into the predation of how far humans ranged and how our biology adapted to support a certain radius.

I know there are alot of studies right now regarding the running barefoot method, and naturally, that is how we are designed biologically. But after you start running with a heel strike, and especially if your a distance runner with heel strike--switching to the barefoot method is really almost dangerous without a lot of careful training. I definitely agree that having a run buddy help diagnose as you go is critical. My buddy that broke his ankle broke was on mile 7 of an 8 mile run. The furthest he had run previously with those shoes was 3 miles and he felt like he was good to go right up until he wasn't.

[ryanm]

http://www.zoology.wisc.edu/faculty/...blishedpdf.pdf

Here's one of the articles, its important to not that the concept of persistence hunting is incredibly costly in terms of energy to the hunter.

I know there are alot of other sources that try to point to persistence hunting as the main reason we've evolved into running machines, but there is also a lot out there that contradicts that perspective with a more anthropological focus.

There are other articles that discus how a person can cover 26 miles faster than a horse because we can do it consistently and mitigate heat more efficiently. I can only say that it would require a highly trained and extremely fit athlete to even attempt to try to out compete a horse over 26 miles. I doubly challenge that data based on the fact the person would need to carry their own water for this to be an effective comparison. If marathon runners had to carry all their own fluid from the start of the race, the times would be a hell of a lot slower thats for sure!

I'm still looking for the predation article.

[Derek_Connor]

There is significant evidence pointing to that we all evolved from ancestors that moved great distances. We are perfectly designed to move miles and miles for hours on end.

But we did not do this running, the majority of it was walking. Slow and steady trumped fast and chronic.

[ryanm]

There is significant evidence pointing to that we all evolved from ancestors that moved great distances. We are perfectly designed to move miles and miles for hours on end.

But we did not do this running, the majority of it was walking. Slow and steady trumped fast and chronic.

100% agree

We might be able to run all of that continuously, but not optimally. If we mix walking and running definitely good to go. These days we try to run the whole distance without stopping and that's where I think we have issues.

Also agree that we have gone too far with shoe mechanics trying to compensate for everything involved with heel strike, but its hard to make that change without injury and requires a gradual approach. I mix up my running using both methods, but using the UK PT03s and I change back and forth continously depending on my how my legs/feet feel.

I see guys running lost lake in full battle rattle almost every day--pretty much stuckrolling off the heel to do that.

If there is a better or different way to approach running with full gear I'd love to know! It will help me and several other people. If there are specific exercises we can do to assist I'll give it a shot and report back.

[Kyle Defoor]

Running with gear just sucks and is very bad for you. That's where well rounded workouts come into play, to help balance and support extra weight. I have found that the Salomon boots are great for this b/c some are built with the flat trail running sole. The 3d fastpacker has good support but your still able to run pretty effectively.

Good discussions here. Fewer people run nowadays which is one reason US kids are fat. You have to learn to not like running when your young, it doesn't just happen. Parents, diet and videogames are the main suspects.

[Derek_Connor]

We were talking about this very subject a few days ago in the OR.

You'd be amazed how many "healthy" people aka long distance types, skinny and thin have to come in for back surgery. It isn't always the "fluffy" overweight individuals..

Chronic Running is simply put, wicked on your joints. Including every single joint at each level of your spine, especially the lumbar.

Chronic running/humping with kit? Exponentially worse.

But i'll be honest, going out for a 2miler or even a 5ker once in awhile, feels good. Real good. I just do it sparingly. Like maybe, 1 or 2 a month. I also understand for those in certain jobs, that frequency isn't realistic and you are required to do more.

On top of the horrible effects it has on spinal morphology, there have been some recent studies on chronic running and heart health. They followed a few marathon runners and tracked their cardiac history. Long story short, just after one marathon, you greatly increase the chances of an MI. Multiples? It keeps going up.

Scary shit.

[tampam4]

Again, thanks to all for really good advice and thoughts, I was hoping to get input like this from all angles and views, thats why I love/hate M4C

tampam4,

Your shins hurt on either side b/c you're heel striking and wearing a shoe with an elevated heel. This shortens your achilles and puts stress forward on the foot. As with most, your probably over striding as well. No shoe will fix that, it will mask it temporarily. Eventually you'll get stress fractures.

Learn to be a mid-foot striker and take short quick steps. If you can adapt to a minimalist shoe it will align your spine, lengthen your achilles, and weigh less than what you have now. I average about 60-70 miles per week in NB 100's on all kinds of surfaces.

As for the The Brooks Beast, it has long been the favorite of big guys. How big are you? A shoe like that weighs a lot, and your lower leg muscles, which are already taxed b/c of the heel striking will now have to pick up a heavier shoe 2000 times per mile which won't help your cause.

Be wary of running shoe stores and their gimmicks to find out what type of foot you have. Your best bet is to get with an ultra runner and let him watch you run. We look at ourselves and others running way more than anyone else.

If you have to go with a "cushioned" shoe, try to get one with a flat sole so your foot works like designed.

Also, try this guy out- http://www.runlabdro.com/

Sizewise, I'm about 6'4 240lbs, and probably around 15% body fat. And someone that I PT with said the same thing you did about heelstriking, I guess I always thought running was putting one foot in front of the other faster

[dcollect]

I personally go for the lightest shoes I could possibly find. This is always New Balance.

I do not suffer from your problem, but I can say that whatever shoe you do choose, be very sure your foot has been sized by someone who knows. This is most important.

I have been told I have excellent form, not bragging or anything, my point as I was starting in high school, the shin splints are a fact of life and will get better. Run through them - but do make sure it's not somthing else.