Krebs KTR and an Aimpoint

[Pat_Rogers]

Absolutely true- no co witnessing. However, and in the general scheme of things, this is a trade off you have to accept in dealing with the AK platform.
To get a good cowitness, you need to elevate the iron sights, and that is not realistic.
The Aimpoint in a Larue low mount puts it in a useable position, but occludes the iron sights.
An option is a side mounted optic to allow the use of the iron sights under the mount, but that puts the mount a a position that is higher then what i would consider good.
Even with the low mount Aimpoint, Dot Off drills are not really viable- the AK is not an AR and can't be considered as such.

My solution is to use a quality optic. I strongly prefer the Aimpoint due to durability and battery life (I don't ever shut any of mine off).
As their failure rate (talking about M3/ M4 here) is roughly analagous to Haleys Comet passing by the earth, i am pretty confident in the system.
Or, just use iron sights....
I have been talking to Mark about a side mount for 2 years now. He even went out and bought an AK. He is just too busy churning out good gear for the good guys to slay haji's with right now- and for the immediate future.

[shooter521]

To get a good cowitness, you need to elevate the iron sights, and that is not realistic.

The raised A2 style rear sight and taller front that Krebs puts on his KTR-03V/S might be a possibility, but of course those are custom guns. For the average off-the-rack AK, the Ultimak works, but brings with it its own set of issues (front heavy, heat buildup, inability to remove the gas tube w/o re-zeroing). Fortunately, I haven't found any of those issues to outweigh the benefits of a co-witnessed red dot... as long as one remembers to Loctite his damn screws and check his witness marks regularly.

I have been talking to Mark about a side mount for 2 years now. He is just too busy churning out good gear for the good guys to slay haji's with right now

Have you spoken to him about this recently? He currently has a thread over on "That Other Site" actively soliciting interest from AK users. He stated the prototype mount has been built, and seems to be committed to moving forward with this project. Good news for those of us on the Dark Side, even if it takes a little time to materialize.

ETA - Here's a link to a thread on this site, containing a link to the thread on TOS:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6183

[armakraut]

Gabe Suarez's Aimpoint Co-witnessed with my KTR-03 just fine. You had to move the dot down a little bit, but otherwise it worked perfectly. I think this is a "lower third" co-witnessing and not a "absolute" co-witnessing.

Aimpoints are just about the only optics that will sit low enough to have any hope of co-wintnessing on an AK. I think AK owners love trijicons, EOtechs, etc. But they seem to either all mount Aimpoint, or Russian PK-AS sights.

The Krebs systems are good. But I think there are ways to work with the standard railed AKM that are much cheaper and still produce the same benefits of the KTR's. You need a low profile aimpoint mount that works off the side rail and can quick detach. Optics mounts are good for those who like them. The more proprietary for the aimpoint, the lower you can go.

For the rest of us, aperture sights are a big plus and this can be accomplished by making a Krinkov cover adapter for the AKM rear sight block and Krinkov covers with aperture sights further back on the cover.

Just My $.02

[JohnN]

What mount will allow a co-witness on an Ultimak? I tried a ARMS 22m68 mount but it is too high.

[Snake RAH]

The Aimpoint (for a M or ML series) low wide mount is low enough on an Ultimak to achieve a cowitness with an AK's irons.

[JohnN]

Thanks Snake appreciate the info.

[Akoni]

Just for grins I put a Docter optic on my KTR yesterday to see if it would co-witness and no dice either. I'm thinking you need some type of look-through ring for this....doesn't Larue make a look-through scope ring?

[Jay Cunningham]

Gabe Suarez's Aimpoint Co-witnessed with my KTR-03 just fine. You had to move the dot down a little bit, but otherwise it worked perfectly. I think this is a "lower third" co-witnessing and not a "absolute" co-witnessing.

Aimpoints are just about the only optics that will sit low enough to have any hope of co-wintnessing on an AK. I think AK owners love trijicons, EOtechs, etc. But they seem to either all mount Aimpoint, or Russian PK-AS sights.

The Krebs systems are good. But I think there are ways to work with the standard railed AKM that are much cheaper and still produce the same benefits of the KTR's. You need a low profile aimpoint mount that works off the side rail and can quick detach. Optics mounts are good for those who like them. The more proprietary for the aimpoint, the lower you can go.

For the rest of us, aperture sights are a big plus and this can be accomplished by making a Krinkov cover adapter for the AKM rear sight block and Krinkov covers with aperture sights further back on the cover.

Just My $.02

You must have the world's only KTR that has a rail that allows that. The only one that currently allows it is the UltiMAK. Period.

[armakraut]

You must have the world's only KTR that has a rail that allows that. The only one that currently allows it is the UltiMAK. Period.

Have you tried it? It worked with this mount, the low style...

http://www.swfa.com/pc-7732-506-aimp...30mm-ring.aspx

[Jay Cunningham]

I will just have to take your word for it.

I KNOW that with that particular mount and an Aimpoint on an UltiMAK the optic co-witnesses just barely.

This arrangement:



produces this sight picture:



The Krebs rail sits higher than the UltiMAK I can't understand how it would also co-witness. So like I said I'll have to take your word for it I suppose. Just wondering, what was your rear sight set to?