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Thread: Couple of ?? about forward assist and immediate action

  1. #41
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    sports is stupid??????

    I find this post funny.
    SLAP the magazine to ensure that it is fully seated. Might be a good idea if your bolt didn't strip a round the first time it went forward
    PULL the charging handle to the rear. Well if it didn't go boom then you need to get the BCG to the rear so you can either send it forward to chamber a round from the magazine you just seated. Or so that you can?
    OBSERVE the ejection port to see if a round or brass came out when you pulled the charging handle to the rear. If there is no ejection then you look in to the reciever and chamber area for a double feed or round stuck in the chamber. Or maybe you could observe that area for any other nasties that make your weapon stop working.
    RELEASE the charging handle after you take the all important step of observing so the BCG can go forward allowing the bolt to strip and chamber another round from the magazine that you didn't seat in the first place.
    TAP the FA to make sure your bolt is fully forward. Might be a good idea since your rifle just stopped working for some unknown reason. It only takes a second and can prevent you from going through the whole drill a second time.
    SHOOT what you should be doing if you went through the whole dumb SPORTS thing right the first time.
    WOW SOUNDS PRETTY SMART TO ME

  2. #42
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    SPORTS is still stupid.

    Push the magazine up. Slap it if you want.
    Pull the magazine to make sure its seated.
    Rack the action while rolling the gun to the side so whatever is causing the problem can fall out of the port. Resume firing. If theres nothing to shoot, look at the carrier to see that its in battery and close the dust cover.

    If that doesn't work, lock the bolt back, rip the magazine out, stick your fingers in the mag well and feel for cartridges, rack the bolt three times to make sure the chamber is clear, then reload the weapon with a fresh magazine. When the bolt goes back into battery, take a look at the carrier through the port and make sure its seated, close the dust cover.

    Next ya'll are gonna wonder how you press check an M4 without operating the bolt...

    I like the above way to handle things because they are non-diagnostic. The first method clears the most common failures, which are ammunition related. The second clears mag type problems. I've had a lot fewer of those, but I am not sentimental about magazines, I will shitcan them in a heartbeat. At 8 bucks a piece its not a problem. Also, thats exactly how I clear my pistols when they malfunction.

    SPORTS only clears Type 1 malfunctions. Type 3s require something else. I have no idea what the military teaches, but I know what works for me.

  3. #43
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    SPORTS is good in it gets the shooter to do more than raise their hand and wait for a coach to clear the weapon. However, it only works some types of failures and its last step will make some failures worse.

    In my opinion it shouldn't be taught as immediate action.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanB View Post
    SPORTS is still stupid.

    Push the magazine up. Slap it if you want.
    Pull the magazine to make sure its seated.
    Rack the action while rolling the gun to the side so whatever is causing the problem can fall out of the port. Resume firing. If theres nothing to shoot, look at the carrier to see that its in battery and close the dust cover.

    If that doesn't work, lock the bolt back, rip the magazine out, stick your fingers in the mag well and feel for cartridges, rack the bolt three times to make sure the chamber is clear, then reload the weapon with a fresh magazine. When the bolt goes back into battery, take a look at the carrier through the port and make sure its seated, close the dust cover.
    Not to quibble but you almost did what SPORTS is training the troops to do save you "dump" anything out of the ejection port rather than have a look to see what happened.

    Call it Tap, Rack, Bang if you like. When I do IA with a handgun I alway catch what comes out of the chamber with the corner of my eye (still looking at the target BTW). Remember, IA drills have a time and place too.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanB View Post
    SPORTS is still stupid.

    Push the magazine up. Slap it if you want.
    Pull the magazine to make sure its seated.
    Rack the action while rolling the gun to the side so whatever is causing the problem can fall out of the port. Resume firing. If theres nothing to shoot, look at the carrier to see that its in battery and close the dust cover.

    If that doesn't work, lock the bolt back, rip the magazine out, stick your fingers in the mag well and feel for cartridges, rack the bolt three times to make sure the chamber is clear, then reload the weapon with a fresh magazine. When the bolt goes back into battery, take a look at the carrier through the port and make sure its seated, close the dust cover.

    Next ya'll are gonna wonder how you press check an M4 without operating the bolt...

    I like the above way to handle things because they are non-diagnostic. The first method clears the most common failures, which are ammunition related. The second clears mag type problems. I've had a lot fewer of those, but I am not sentimental about magazines, I will shitcan them in a heartbeat. At 8 bucks a piece its not a problem. Also, thats exactly how I clear my pistols when they malfunction.

    SPORTS only clears Type 1 malfunctions. Type 3s require something else. I have no idea what the military teaches, but I know what works for me.
    Sorry if I make you feel a little stupid. But what you just described is S.P.O.R.T.S to a T. Anyone worth their salt knows you cant the chamber when using S.P.O.R.T.S. You haven't described any new revolutionary method there. Oh and I ain't sticking shit into a hot chamber. My eyes work just fine when I OBSERVE.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    Sorry if I make you feel a little stupid. But what you just described is S.P.O.R.T.S to a T. Anyone worth their salt knows you cant the chamber when using S.P.O.R.T.S. You haven't described any new revolutionary method there. Oh and I ain't sticking shit into a hot chamber. My eyes work just fine when I OBSERVE.
    If you read his message more carefully, what he described would be more like SPOR_S in your terminology, without the "T" for tapping on the forward assist.

    He also mentioned push/pull on the magazines, which is not the same as slapping it on the bottom and then not checking to ensure the mag is seated properly (that's what the pull is for).

  7. #47
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    Alrighty then. There are a few differences, but inherently the same actions are in play.

    Let me ask you this; If you have a woman in front of you are you going to ignore the "functioning" parts of her body because you think they may be a waste of time, or you just don't have use for it?

    Yep, I thought so.

  8. #48
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    You're taking sports, removing the T and adding a pull. And you're not looking at the ejection port while you do it, you're tipping the rifle over so whatever is causing the problem can fall out. Yes, it is similar. But better.

    What does the military teach for Type 3 malfunction clearance?

  9. #49
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    Sports is taught to Observe the firing port to see what ejects, it's also to look inside the chamber for obstructions and as a precursor to releasing to see that the bolt is properly positioned before squeezing the trigger.

    This is beyond kicking a dead horse, moving a mountain, etc.

    If you don't know S.P.O.R.T.S I hope you are smart enough to change weapon platforms. If not you are putting your life at risk.

    Thus ends the debate.

  10. #50
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    My take...
    I rarely use the Forward assist as part of my loading procedures. A properly maintained and lubed AR should not require it.

    As for SPORTS... I used it and taught it because it was doctrine.. Do I use it now??

    Noop.. Push,Pull,Rack Roll is what I have been using for years now. It's sort of like SPORTS, but more streamlined and more refined as far as I'm concerned.
    I learned it from Pat and I have used it ever since. It's a good technique and one I am comfortable with and train on... Is it the end all ,be all?? No. find a technique that you like and go with it.

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