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Thread: Couple of ?? about forward assist and immediate action

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanB View Post
    SPORTS is still stupid.

    Push the magazine up. Slap it if you want.
    Pull the magazine to make sure its seated.
    Rack the action while rolling the gun to the side so whatever is causing the problem can fall out of the port. Resume firing. If theres nothing to shoot, look at the carrier to see that its in battery and close the dust cover.

    If that doesn't work, lock the bolt back, rip the magazine out, stick your fingers in the mag well and feel for cartridges, rack the bolt three times to make sure the chamber is clear, then reload the weapon with a fresh magazine. When the bolt goes back into battery, take a look at the carrier through the port and make sure its seated, close the dust cover.

    Next ya'll are gonna wonder how you press check an M4 without operating the bolt...

    I like the above way to handle things because they are non-diagnostic. The first method clears the most common failures, which are ammunition related. The second clears mag type problems. I've had a lot fewer of those, but I am not sentimental about magazines, I will shitcan them in a heartbeat. At 8 bucks a piece its not a problem. Also, thats exactly how I clear my pistols when they malfunction.

    SPORTS only clears Type 1 malfunctions. Type 3s require something else. I have no idea what the military teaches, but I know what works for me.
    This is how I figure it: TRB. Or to be more specific TPRRRS. (Tap, Pull, Rack, Roll, Release, Shoot.)

    The main thing about SPORTS is how are you going to Observe in the dark? Why not just streamline and rack/roll that way any jam should fall out (even in the dark.) If you fail on the shoot part then you have a larger problem and should then take the time to observe/poke or whatever your preferred method is. The last tap on the FA could further the problem should you have one. Also, seating a mag shouldn't require a slap or a slam. Just push and pull.

    YMMV.
    -Razoreye

  2. #62
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    I wonder why I bother posting.

    Maybe next gun fight I will stop and ask for directions from some tard posting on the net/
    P.S. Eat my ass for those who've never BTDT
    Last edited by KevinB; 04-28-07 at 19:41.
    Kevin S. Boland
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  3. #63
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    Same reason most of us work while tons of people live on welfare.

    You know what's right and you do it and stick with it. If people want to insist on living the way they do, they will. Oh well.


  4. #64
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    P.S. Eat my ass for those who've never BTDT

    LOL

    I spend just enough time on carbine IA to not forget it altogether since I don't want to make it a muscle memory habit. If I can't shoot a savage with my pistol then he can't hit me with his rifle. At that point I'll just clear the malfunction in my M4 and go back to performing jihad on him. Transition rules the day, folks. Don't sweat the TRB/SPORTS thing. Do whatever you're used to.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4Guru View Post

    LOL

    I spend just enough time on carbine IA to not forget it altogether since I don't want to make it a muscle memory habit. If I can't shoot a savage with my pistol then he can't hit me with his rifle. At that point I'll just clear the malfunction in my M4 and go back to performing jihad on him. Transition rules the day, folks. Don't sweat the TRB/SPORTS thing. Do whatever you're used to.

    Well that is because most people only have a rifle or a carbine. Very few are issued both. I had both because of both rank and billet, but I was the exception and not the rule for the military.

  6. #66
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    I take for granted having a secondary, I guess. I've been fortunate enough to always have been issued a pistol my whole army career. Another failure on the military's part. Everyone going into a combat zone should have a sidearm and be properly trained on its use.

  7. #67
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    I use push-pull, rack & roll for the reason KevinB mentioned-it's faster than SPORTS. This is the same thing I teach my soldiers. I do not care if it's not what the Army endorses or teaches as a whole. Push-pull rack & roll; tap, rack, bang; & SPORTS all clear the same type of malfunctions---none clear double feeds (which you may discover while observing the chamber during SPORTS which means you switch into remedial action and had better be behind some cover somewhere...you're going to be there for a few). Paul Howe, who I've also trained with teaches SPORTS, but freely admits he personally does little more than rack the bolt for malfunctions. About the only place I see SPORTS required anymore is EIB...

    Jaxcatm, the procedure for clearing a double feed that RyanB mentioned I also learned from Pat Rogers. Pat teaches you to induce the double feed so you get the feeling of what it's actually like and not just finger drill it. You do not touch the chamber area, merely push the two offending rounds so the pop loose. Of course in a double feed I've also never seen the mag drop free and it always has to be ripped out of the mag well. Sometimes the rounds go with, sometimes they don't. And I have done this on very hot weapons-no burns either. But again, clearing double feeds is remedial action-not immediate action. You can also give the nice bravado comment of we don't teach our guys what type 3 malfunctions are, etc. It is however knowledge that is useful so I wouldn't knock it too much especially since the number of times I've tried to figure out what various soldiers have told me their gun was "jamming"...it's nice to have common use terms, ie failure to extract, eject, feed, double feed, type 3, type 2, type 1, etc.

    Like M4guru said though, transition is the best option-now if only the whole Army understood that...I guess that's another use for the 203....

  8. #68
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    As was said earlier, FM's are not always cutting edge, but I think they are good for training new troops until they comprehend how things work.

    I would prefer to look at my BCG and go from there. If it's closed; tap and charge. It it isn't closed; Lock bolt back, clear the rounds and reload. For stove-pipe; I will roll the weapon right , pull the charging hand back enough to release the cartridge case and reset the hammer, then let it go.

    I also agree, if you plan on going into harm's way, take a handgun as backup if you can.

  9. #69
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    No one is more experienced than the combat Infantryman (ARMY OR MARINE). If it's good enough for him than shut the hell up.

    I'm sorry but at least 80% + of you have never put a round downrange in hostile operations. While I'm no Rambo I have seen enough to know that what they trained me to do works.

    All this talk about tap, slow, tickle me Elmo usually comes from someone who's only time in theater is that of watching BHD or HEAT.

    Let's put this thread to bed, cause Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    No one is more experienced than the combat Infantryman (ARMY OR MARINE). If it's good enough for him than shut the hell up.

    I'm sorry but at least 80% + of you have never put a round downrange in hostile operations. While I'm no Rambo I have seen enough to know that what they trained me to do works.

    All this talk about tap, slow, tickle me Elmo usually comes from someone who's only time in theater is that of watching BHD or HEAT.

    Let's put this thread to bed, cause Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
    Some of us who fall into that remaining 20% are also the ones advocating other things. It's called being open minded to new TTPs.

    Later,

    Mac

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