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Thread: Couple of ?? about forward assist and immediate action

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    No one is more experienced than the combat Infantryman (ARMY OR MARINE). If it's good enough for him than shut the hell up.

    I'm sorry but at least 80% + of you have never put a round downrange in hostile operations. While I'm no Rambo I have seen enough to know that what they trained me to do works.

    All this talk about tap, slow, tickle me Elmo usually comes from someone who's only time in theater is that of watching BHD or HEAT.

    Let's put this thread to bed, cause Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.

    What does combat experience have to do with weapons manipulation? I'm not talking to anyone here about the proper execution of a fire team rush. I'm not talking about how to clear a room in Fallujah. I am talking about how to reliably and quickly clear a malfunction in a rifle. That is something that one can learn on the range.

    I'm sorry if I don't automatically think that everything the military does is best simply because they do it. I am ALWAYS looking for a better way.

  2. #72
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    I'm sorry I come across so hostile. It's like some of you want to reinvent the wheel because it's not square enough to fit your taste.

    This is one of the methods that if it ain't broke why beat it with a hammer.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    I'm sorry I come across so hostile. It's like some of you want to reinvent the wheel because it's not square enough to fit your taste.

    This is one of the methods that if it ain't broke why beat it with a hammer.
    Why stay with a method that isn't as fast as new methods that do the same thing?

    I'm sorry, but I'm trying to improve constantly. I'm never happy with "good enough" because one day it won't be.
    They had no right to win. Yet they did, and in doing so they changed the course of a war...even against the greatest of odds, there is something in the human spirit - a magic blend of skill, faith and valor - that can lift men from certain defeat to incredible victory.

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    Sorry pal, all the new methods are just a bastardized version of the old methods. They haven't invented anything new, they've just modified an already great failure drill.

    S.P.O.R.T.S is the oldest, best method of corrective action. That is why it is taught across the board. Even the best classes recognize it as SOP.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    Sorry pal, all the new methods are just a bastardized version of the old methods. They haven't invented anything new, they've just modified an already great failure drill.

    S.P.O.R.T.S is the oldest, best method of corrective action. That is why it is taught across the board. Even the best classes recognize it as SOP.
    Wow, 'cause I've been to several classes and none of them taught SPORTS. No Navy school I've been to taught it either. Kept it standardized and simple, tap, rack, bang.

    All of this is post OEF/OIF. Ever think that they've modified SPORTS based on experience? Nah, that would make sense.
    They had no right to win. Yet they did, and in doing so they changed the course of a war...even against the greatest of odds, there is something in the human spirit - a magic blend of skill, faith and valor - that can lift men from certain defeat to incredible victory.

  6. #76
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    Nothing like a difference of opinions. I respect you and your right to voice yours, however misguided I feel it is.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    No one is more experienced than the combat Infantryman (ARMY OR MARINE). If it's good enough for him than shut the hell up.
    Quite frankly, that is where your utterly and truly wrong.

    The Skills levels and general experience of the infantry trade are poor and I do my best not to be around them if rounds start popping.


    I'm sorry but at least 80% + of you have never put a round downrange in hostile operations. While I'm no Rambo I have seen enough to know that what they trained me to do works.

    All this talk about tap, slow, tickle me Elmo usually comes from someone who's only time in theater is that of watching BHD or HEAT.

    Let's put this thread to bed, cause Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
    Call me a snob - but by and large I sincerly doubt you have a great deal of trigger time, or have been to higher level schools in the system. We came out with the IP moniker for a reason here.
    The idea is so people who had some "street cred" based on their MOS and unit/experience could be identified. So info could be understood that was given out by a solid base.

    I'm done with this thread -- since its rude for Staff to abuse their position to name call and otherwise degrade the thread with personal attacks -- which is where I am coming to.
    Kevin S. Boland
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    Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 407-451-4544 | Fax: 703.288.4505
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  8. #78
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    While I may not have as much trigger time as some of the new Gen OIF/OEF or the currently deployed breed or even the old Vietnam Vets, I have had enough to say I've had my fair share.

    KevinB You've seen enough of my DD 214 to see that I've spent time in theater before, during, and after. I know that I won't ever provide that type of personal information to anyone on any internet forum again. I would happily show you an un-sanitized version FTF and with the knowledge that copies will not be made. If you want to attack me, by all means lets go to PM. We've already talked on the phone I'd be more than happy to go that route again. Or you can go the ARFCOM route and defame me publicly and lock my account so I can't defend myself.

    (Kevin, not directed towards you)
    It sucks that people have made it their mission in life to try and out me for a poseur (poser). Try as hard as they may it is a mission they are destined to fair

    How many regular Army guys do you know spent as much time overseas as I did? I helped train quite a few foreign soldiers on Infantry tactics so I may not be an expert but I like to think I know a little bit.

    As for the rest I guess I've earned my fair share of enemies that have a large amount of disdain for me. I can't help those with an inferiority complex, I've done nothing but be honest with how I feel. Not everyone likes people that speak their mind.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    The forward assist IMHO serves no justifiable purpose on the weapon these days.

    IF the IA does not work -- then you need to work on secondary stoppages and mechanical breakdown.
    I feel better now.


    And since I can't leave things alone, I noted when I reread my earlier contributions that I was too focused on the whole forward assist thing and lost sight of the context of an immediate action to resolve a malfunction. I alluded to this in a later message where I mentioned adminstrative situations and using the thuimb on the bolt carrier, but that's still beside the point of fixing malfunctions. Like some of the others, I was taught push/pull, rack/roll, etc. etc. The key missing feature is absence of reliance on or use of the forward assist. I got absorbed by that part and missed the forest because of that one tree.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by combatvet View Post
    I'm sorry I come across so hostile. It's like some of you want to reinvent the wheel because it's not square enough to fit your taste.

    This is one of the methods that if it ain't broke why beat it with a hammer.

    Sorry pal, all the new methods are just a bastardized version of the old methods. They haven't invented anything new, they've just modified an already great failure drill.

    S.P.O.R.T.S is the oldest, best method of corrective action. That is why it is taught across the board. Even the best classes recognize it as SOP.
    You are full of yourself aren't you. Oh and if you would like to compare penis size, I've spent about 1/3 of my time in deployed-2003 is the only year since 2001 where I haven't spent some portion deployed. Oh, and I'm staring my next trip in the face...
    Get yourself a shot timer, learn to do the other clearance drills.... SPORTS will not be the fastest, it's that simple. Prove me wrong ( but give it an honest effort ). Neither KevinB, myself, or M4Guru have said SPORTS doesn't work, we've just said there are better and more efficient ways. Kevin uses tap, rack, bang because he uses the same thing for his pistol-it's an efficiency of training and a commonality issue. Less muscle memory for him to train on. I use push pull, rack&roll because it's faster ( How long do you have to fix your weapon in combat? The same amount of time you have to pull your reserve---the rest of your life... ) If SPORTS works for you, great, but I wouldn't knock other methods out there because the Army didn't teach you. Does training to the lowest common denominator mean anything to you? The Army didn't teach me the differences between controlled pairs and hammer pairs or failure to stop drills, but I took the time and money to learn them on my own....

    BTW, I've seen what happens when non Infantry teach Infantry skills, and as an Infantryman, I've never been impressed... I wouldn't toot my horn about it too much...

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