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Thread: Putting Out Feelers On Piston AR's

  1. #11
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    Short barrel, full auto, and suppressed... otherwise its not needed.

  2. #12
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRochester View Post
    Short barrel, full auto, and suppressed... otherwise its not needed.
    Since when is it about "need"?

    "Need" is the "N-word" and is a four letter word, too. Pay the webmaster $2 and carry on, sir.
    Last edited by Mjolnir; 03-04-10 at 23:47.

  3. #13
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    Thumbs up

    I have owned 3 LWRC models and they have functioned flawlessy. For me the 2 largest advantage points are the elimination of carbon build up which causes fouling and the heat disbursement is primarily handled at 95% in the front of the rifle.

    Advanteges:

    1) LEFT HANDED SHOOTERS: No gas in the face
    2) SUPRESSED: significant gas reduction in the face
    3) HEAT: Parts last longer due to differentiated heat disbursement at the front end versus in the chamber.
    4) MUZZLE RISE: On the LWRC it is reduced due to the gas being released from the top forcing the muzzle to stay down when firing full auto or double taps.
    5) With the reduction of carbon build up and the significant heat reduction the extracters do not heat up and break as easily.

    Just my two cents... Thanks for the post.

  4. #14
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    Lightbulb

    As a piston rifle owner, I'd agree with most of the folks on here - it doesn't really "DO" anything a DI rifle CAN'T do, and has a number of eccentricities you'll want to keep track of, that you DON'T run into in a DI gun, buffer tube erosion being most prominent among them.

    I have a POF which I've made a number of improvements to, and still have a few to go. That said, to address your points;

    (1) how does feel and handling compare to conventional gas AR's, both in actual shooting but also overall weight, balance, etc.?
    It's heavier overall, and particularly nose-heavy. Muzzle flip becomes almost a non-issue, but extra weight can be a drag.

    (2) how does reliability compare?
    Honestly, I haven't fired enough rounds to tell you. My Timney trigger seized up within 200 rounds though. Timney, to their credit, sent me a replacement at NO COST, no questions asked! Nonetheless, I replaced it with a RRA 2-stage, which has worked quite well - even in single-digit cold!

    (3) what cleaning and other maintenance issues are there?
    Cleanup is a BREEZE. Still got all the nooks and crannies to clean, like any other AR, but with all the elctroless nickel in the POF, that's much easier too!

    (4) what makes and models are particularly of note (especially any folders)?
    Mine is a 415 Recon - 16" bbl, 12" rails.

    I mentioned upgrades. To wit;

    - RRA 2-stage trigger
    - BCM extractor upgrade (black insert, NO donut)
    - H2 buffer & Dave Tubb's flat-wire buffer spring
    - Ergo grip
    - Troy BUIS front & rear
    - Vltor EMod stock

    These are just things changed from what came from the factory. I still want to add a PWS anti-tilt buffer TUBE soon.

    I DO like my POF, how it shoots, the recoil, and the solid feel of it against my shoulder when deployed. It's a rifle I know I can go to, and will get the job done. Piston rifles are NOT the proverbial 'Star Trek phaser on setting 16,' but if you have the money and time to spend, to set it up, they are a different experience.
    - Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

  5. #15
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    Thanks for the many well-reasoned responses. This appears to be a topic of some interest, and I appreciate the time folks have put into sharing their thoughts.

    I never intended a piston AR as a replacement for my DI M&P15, just as a possible new something-to-try-out. Based on the above responses though, I think this is a project I'll shelve for the time being and maybe try something else for my Spring Fling.

    Thanks again folks.

  6. #16
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    my experience with them is limited with one ar15/m4 based piston gun a lwrc m6a2 and from my point of view it kicks much harder no matter what we did to it we could not get the follow up shot speed we are getting out of my noveske afghan( we compaired these two because price is so close)
    i do not know if this is a odd ball gun with problems and he has had to send it back twice with problems and from the reports i have read the guys running them full auto are having the same problems with the being unable to control the rifles

    the guys at noveske have done some testing on the di vs piston setup and if you run a supressor like i do then you still get all the hot gasses in the breach of the weapon no matter what system you run because the suppressor holds gas and then it is directed back into the reciever on piston guns ( well documented )

    i do own a piston gun but it is not a ar platform i have a scar-l and i love it and it has the folding stock you want but it is way way overpriced for what it is a great rifle set up correctly but it is its own type of firearm but it is one of my favorite the trigger is just horrible on it so i had to get it fixed for my with the price that are being charged for scar's they should come with the best of everything and the trigger was worse that a bargin bin rifle imho

    if you just take proper care of you di gun and do the proper cleanign it will always run i never had a di gun go down on me due to the gas system in my deployments in iraq or afghan and they are serving the military today i had other problems surface but never a di system issue

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfink View Post
    my experience with them is limited with one ar15/m4 based piston gun a lwrc m6a2 and from my point of view it kicks much harder no matter what we did to it we could not get the follow up shot speed we are getting out of my noveske afghan( we compaired these two because price is so close)
    i do not know if this is a odd ball gun with problems and he has had to send it back twice with problems and from the reports i have read the guys running them full auto are having the same problems with the being unable to control the rifles

    the guys at noveske have done some testing on the di vs piston setup and if you run a supressor like i do then you still get all the hot gasses in the breach of the weapon no matter what system you run because the suppressor holds gas and then it is directed back into the reciever on piston guns ( well documented )

    i do own a piston gun but it is not a ar platform i have a scar-l and i love it and it has the folding stock you want but it is way way overpriced for what it is a great rifle set up correctly but it is its own type of firearm but it is one of my favorite the trigger is just horrible on it so i had to get it fixed for my with the price that are being charged for scar's they should come with the best of everything and the trigger was worse that a bargin bin rifle imho

    if you just take proper care of you di gun and do the proper cleanign it will always run i never had a di gun go down on me due to the gas system in my deployments in iraq or afghan and they are serving the military today i had other problems surface but never a di system issue
    I, too, noticed the "sharper" recoil of the gas piston carbines starting with shooting a friend's HK SL8 several years ago; not "a lot of recoil", mind you, but noticeably DIFFERENT. More focus and technique is required for rapid follow ups. That said, I like the concept. Perhaps HK, LWRCi and LMT's execution isn't "perfect" but the engineering principles of the gas piston is, in my estimation, the most proper solution.

    I think they all will run well for you and I who are not in active combat. Keep 'em clean and lubed (even if it is an LMT, LWRC or HK or Colt, Noveske, S&W...) after having taken them through a "shake down" run or three to your satisfaction and all should be good.

  8. #18
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    I have over 10k rounds through my 10.5" LWRC M6A1 (carbine length system) and around 5k through my 12.7" LWRC M6A3 (mid length system). The greatest advantage, IMHO, is that I don't have to clean it as often and even when I do; I don't have to scrape any of that black stuff off the bolt or from inside of the BCG.

    The recoil is noticeably sharper (higher impulse) but is straight back so you should not notice any muzzle rise. I like my LWRC rifles. YMMV.
    We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I

  9. #19
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    Para USA has their piston with a folding collapsable stock, 1/9 twist, it uses a different style piston system in that the bolt carrier attached to the op-rod it does not use a buffer. I have only seen it in a magazine article so I dont know a whole lot about it other than it exists and pictures of the internals

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