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Thread: Is 1/9" twist a deal breaker?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
    If you really want to step up to the plate you'd be slinging 115gr. 6.8x43mm... or even 7.62x39, or possibly 7.62x51mm.

    .50 Beowolf will probably knock 'em deader than dead... or at least by all Interweb accountz.

    We understand your position by now... lethality and ninja flips above all else, but for a primary use range gun w/ primary fodder of M193, the situation calls for a 1/9. I'd also recommend the OP check out some of the other options available as far as soft points and ballistic tips to enhance the lethality in the home defense role without increasing penetration.

    It's completely absurd to call a 1/9 barrel a "dealbreaker."
    The 7.62x39 is not as good a choice in a defense rifle. At least the way the ammo situation is right now. I would much rather use a 5.56 loaded with 75 grain tap over any 7.62x39 load. The 7.62x51 is not a great choice for home defense due to the over penetration and its not the best choice for CQB due to the recoil and slower follow up shots. The 50 Beowolf is a low capacity weapon, for short range with excess penetration in a home defense situation. Also who is We? do you have a mouse in your pocket?
    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 03-09-10 at 13:07.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Wrong. The 7.62x39 is not as good a choice in a defense rifle. At least the way the ammo situation is right now.
    Do expound...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    The 7.62x51 is not a great choice for home defense due to the over penetration and its not the best choice for CQB due to the recoil and slower follow up shots.
    I do agree, as it would be quite silly, but for argument's sake that could all depend on what one's plan is for home defense and how close the threat is... are we talking only about CQB? "Home Defense" means different things to different people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    The 50 Beowolf is a low capacity weapon, for short range with excess penetration in a home defense situation.
    Again, are we talking about a bad man looking to do bad things, or are we going to slug it out with the Muj? Plenty of folks generate favorable outcomes in bad situations with 12 gauge shotguns every year.

    Does it make them any deader than 77 grain TAP? Any deader than M193? (you seem to think so)

    Also who is We? do you have a mouse in your pocket?
    Pat

    I'm not alone...

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
    Do expound...



    I do agree, as it would be quite silly, but for argument's sake that could all depend on what one's plan is for home defense and how close the threat is... are we talking only about CQB? "Home Defense" means different things to different people.



    Again, are we talking about a bad man looking to do bad things, or are we going to slug it out with the Muj? Plenty of folks generate favorable outcomes in bad situations with 12 gauge shotguns every year.

    Does it make them any deader than 77 grain TAP? Any deader than M193? (you seem to think so)




    I'm not alone...
    1. The 7.62.39 has poor tissue destruction with most of the surplus military ammo being sold for it. Take a look at these threads.
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885

    2. The .308 platform has more cons than pros even for general military use. Hence why its limited to sniping systems and machine guns for the most part.

    3. Its not about making someone deader as you put it but rather stopping them faster. 77 and 75 grain 5.56 loads do that better than 55 grain ball.
    Pat
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    1. The 7.62.39 has poor tissue destruction with most of the surplus military ammo being sold for it. Take a look at these threads.
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885

    2. The .308 platform has more cons than pros even for general military use. Hence why its limited to sniping systems and machine guns for the most part.

    3. Its not about making someone deader as you put it but rather stopping them faster. 77 and 75 grain 5.56 loads do that better than 55 grain ball.
    Pat

    You're mixing apples and oranges. You reference crap milsurp x.39 and quality 5.56. If you want to compare wouldn't a more appropriate comparison be BH 75gr 5.56 and Corbon 123gr DPX 7.62x39?

    BH
    75 Gr. Heavy Match HP
    Velocity 2750 FPS
    Energy 1259 Ft. Lbs.

    CorBon
    123GR. DPX HUNTER
    VELOCITY= 2300 FPS
    ENERGY= 1445 FTLBS

  5. #55
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    Let's keep this on track. We are talking about 1/9 and 1/7 twist. Most of us seem to realize that 1/7 is the most versatile and common sense option.



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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by donr101395 View Post
    You're mixing apples and oranges. You reference crap milsurp x.39 and quality 5.56. If you want to compare wouldn't a more appropriate comparison be BH 75gr 5.56 and Corbon 123gr DPX 7.62x39?
    Good info... I was waiting to get AKpp's response so I could ask if a decent 7.62x39mm round like Corbon or even some of the East Bloc JHP/JSP rounds could match the mighty, mighty Mk. 262 up close... or through a windshield or light brush.

    (And I actually would be interested to hear what DocGKR has to say on the "vs." subject.)

    ETA: True, the subject has been beat to death by now.
    Last edited by KalashniKEV; 03-09-10 at 14:02.

  7. #57
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    Information on 7.62x39 mm performance is available here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885

    Because of the larger permanent cavity and greater bullet mass, well designed 7.62 x 39 mm loads offer somewhat better performance than the best .223 loads, including heavy OTM's like Mk262 and bonded JSP’s like the TBBC; however, 6.8 mm eclipses 7.62x39mm.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by donr101395 View Post
    You're mixing apples and oranges. You reference crap milsurp x.39 and quality 5.56. If you want to compare wouldn't a more appropriate comparison be BH 75gr 5.56 and Corbon 123gr DPX 7.62x39?

    BH
    75 Gr. Heavy Match HP
    Velocity 2750 FPS
    Energy 1259 Ft. Lbs.

    CorBon
    123GR. DPX HUNTER
    VELOCITY= 2300 FPS
    ENERGY= 1445 FTLBS
    I did make the statement (with the ammo situation we have currently) secondly I don't trust Corbon anything. Crap ammo in my experience. I had a Corbon 357 sig round blow up a Glock about 10 years ago. Also had dud rounds from them, huge velocity spreads. Overall just junk ammo. I have no problem with the 7.62x39 with good ammo. I just have not found any good ammo for it yet. Secondly I prefer the AR platform to the AK overall. The 6.8 looks very interesting and I may invest in one in the future.
    Back on track. The 1/7 and 1/8 barrel options are better choices because they stabilize the heavier bullets and do fine with bullets as light as 50 grains. No reason to limit yourself.
    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 03-09-10 at 14:35.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Information on 7.62x39 mm performance is available here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885
    Doc, thanks for your time and attention to this thread... I gathered that from the data you provided, but just wanted to make sure I was on the right track.

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Because of the larger permanent cavity and greater bullet mass, well designed 7.62 x 39 mm loads offer somewhat better performance than the best .223 loads, including heavy OTM's like Mk262 and bonded JSP’s like the TBBC; however, 6.8 mm eclipses 7.62x39mm.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    I did make the statement (with the ammo situation we have currently) secondly I don't trust Corbon anything. Crap ammo in my experience. I had a Corbon 357 sig round blow up a Glock about 10 years ago. Also had dud rounds from them, huge velocity spreads. Overall just junk ammo.
    Back on track. The 1/7 and 1/8 barrel options are better choices because they stabilize the heavier bullets and do fine with bullets as light as 50 grains. No reason to limit yourself.
    Pat
    While I don't want to get in the middle of this, is this the kind of pattern we're going to expect in this discussion? "yeah but, it's junk" or "yeah but, it's not available" or more ways of discounting an alternate argument?

    Personally I think you should have gone with the fact that AKs suck and ARs in 7.62x39 aren't reliable.

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