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Thread: Help me spend $2,000....wisely

  1. #21
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    Awesome job Rob! And to point out, for those who like their stuff to match, the BCM compete lowers are $350...and if you get the regular BCM barrel, instead of the BFH, its about $100 less.

  2. #22
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    Why is everyone adding the cost of an Aimpoint/Optic to the initial package? He stated it's optional, and since he hasn't even built (let alone shot) his gun yet, so he doesn't even know how it shoots or how he'll want to shoot it.

    My suggestion is buy everything BUT the optic. As many others have pointed out, you can get all of the parts you mentioned for around $2200 - that means without the optic, you're looking at $1800 - $1900. Buy everything but the optic and use that case of ammo (some or all of it) learning to shoot your gun with iron sights.

    Trying to buy everything on a tight budget will leave you with regrets (i.e. "Well, I would have liked to get the Aimpoint ML3 + Larue cantilever combo, but now I'm stuck with a C3 + ADM mount because I purchased the only model that would fit my budget"). In addition, you'll end up with a frankengun (if that doesn't bother you, then ignore this) that's either got different uppers/lowers, or bare-bones stripped down, when you could have gotten a good old BCM or Noveske straight up for $150-200 more. Further, the Aimpoint Micro models are out of his price range by... maybe $300? Those are a massively great upgrade as far as weight and size go, yet he can't even consider them due to the constrained budget.

    You can easily afford everything but your optic on that budget. Buy the exact rifle you want (no need to skimp since you're not buying the optic), sling, ammo, etc, and then come back later when you've got the money to buy whatever optic you want.

    You'll thank me later.
    Last edited by Skyyr; 03-13-10 at 12:26.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post
    Why is everyone adding the cost of an Aimpoint/Optic to the initial package? He stated it's optional
    Because it shouldn't be.
    Principles matter.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero View Post
    Because it shouldn't be.
    Then you're gravely mistaken. A rifle with an Aimpoint is nothing but a rifle with a $500 piece of metal and glass on top. Knowing how to use the weapon will make the rifle more deadly and reliable than any optic on top. Adding expensive gear to a gun doesn't make something good.

    Sure, an Aimpoint can make the user more effective at getting hits on target, but only if they've learned to use the rifle correctly in the first place.

    My advice stands: buy the rifle, learn to use it, then decide on the optic you need.

  5. #25
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    You can learn to use a rifle correctly with an Aimpoint.

    And the irons aren't going anywhere. He can learn on those as well.

    I'm liking rob's package. BCM middy's (or any quality middy for that matter) are a dream to shoot.
    Last edited by opmike; 03-13-10 at 13:05.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post
    Then you're gravely mistaken. A rifle with an Aimpoint is nothing but a rifle with a $500 piece of metal and glass on top. Knowing how to use the weapon will make the rifle more deadly and reliable than any optic on top. Adding expensive gear to a gun doesn't make something good.

    Sure, an Aimpoint can make the user more effective at getting hits on target, but only if they've learned to use the rifle correctly in the first place.

    My advice stands: buy the rifle, learn to use it, then decide on the optic you need.
    He did ask us to "spend" $2,000 for him. Of those that suggest optics, they're solidly within that price range. There's a little over/under, but it's stupid to suggest buying a $1,600 rifle and then going out of your way to say, "Don't spend that extra money one something that makes you a more effective shooter!"

    Sounds like a lot of people think an optic is an essential piece of hardware to have. I haven't heard one person suggest avoiding learning to use iron sights.

    This isn't a debate about whether it's better to deny yourself an optic till you can shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with irons. It's a thread about what folks are suggesting this gentlemen should spend 2 grand on.

    Relax, it's Saturday.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post
    Then you're gravely mistaken. A rifle with an Aimpoint is nothing but a rifle with a $500 piece of metal and glass on top. Knowing how to use the weapon will make the rifle more deadly and reliable than any optic on top. Adding expensive gear to a gun doesn't make something good.

    Sure, an Aimpoint can make the user more effective at getting hits on target, but only if they've learned to use the rifle correctly in the first place.

    My advice stands: buy the rifle, learn to use it, then decide on the optic you need.
    You contradict yourself, sir.

    Army studies have shown new recruits shoot better with an RDS than they do with irons. They shorten the learning curve of putting bullets into bad guys. That's why they bought a million M68s, not because they look cool.
    Principles matter.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post
    My suggestion is buy everything BUT the optic.
    why? It has been shown that he can get a very good quality firearm AND a very good quality optic, and meet the rest of his needs and stay within budget. Please tell me this isn't due to some antiquated and romanticised notion that "you should learn irons first".

    Trying to buy everything on a tight budget will leave you with regrets (i.e. "Well, I would have liked to get the Aimpoint ML3 + Larue cantilever combo, but now I'm stuck with a C3 + ADM mount because I purchased the only model that would fit my budget").
    Anyone that thinks that way is a fool. In fact, most people should think of it quite the opposite ("well, I went and bought the ML3 in Larue cantilever mount but I would have been just as well served with the C3 + ADM straight mount because I don't use any of the features that account for the added cost of the LT/ML3")

    In addition, you'll end up with a frankengun
    as I believe they say on the interwebs "oh, the noes!"

    You can easily afford everything but your optic on that budget.
    actually he can afford everything AND the optic on that budget, as has been shown already.


    The ONLY way I would agree with you re: skipping the optic is if it means he'll actually go take a class with the iron sights. If he's just going to spend a year farting around with the gun with irons only because you told him he didn't need an optic then I say buy the optic now. If, however, skipping the $465 on the C3/ADM combo now means he has the cash to go take a quality introductory class like Randy Cain's Carbine 1 where the focus is entirely on the fundamentals and where he'll actually be training with someone that understand and appreciates the iron sights, and who can teach him to get good hits out to 200 yards with those iron sights, then I would agree with you that it is worth skipping the Aimpoint and putting 600-800 rounds out of that case to good use with Mr. Cain.

    If, however, he's just going to go take a blasting class anyway, a year from now regardless, with or without the optic, then he might as well get the optic now.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyyr View Post

    My advice stands: buy the rifle, learn to use it, then decide on the optic you need.
    Today the optic is a vital piece of the rifle. You cannot learn to use the rifle correctly without the optic.
    • formerly known as "eguns-com"
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    •eguns.com has not been actively promoted in a long time though I still do Dillon special
    orders, etc. and I have random left over inventory.
    •"eguns.com" domain name for sale (not the webstore). Serious enquiries only.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by eguns-com View Post
    Today the optic is a vital piece of the rifle. You cannot learn to use the rifle correctly without the optic.
    That might be taking it a little far. I'd say the optic is a vital piece of the rifle and thus training with it should be a priority.

    That said, the optic WILL break down one day (or run out of batteries at the wrong time). At that point, there IS a correct way to use a rifle without the optic, and you should know it. Not knowing how to use your rifle without an optic is like not knowing how to clear malfunctions because "they rarely happen."
    Last edited by Complication; 03-13-10 at 14:09.

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