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Thread: How drop-safe is an AR/M4 with the selector on SAFE?

  1. #11
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    the safety is a bar of steel that physically prevents the trigger from moving far enough to lose sear contact with the hammer.. the only way the hammer can drop on a safetied AR is if one or both sears sheer off, the trigger pin sheer off, the safety bar on the trigger breaks off, or if the safety itself is removed (i doubt even a cracked safety, so long as it's still in place, would allow enough movement).

    i've done quite a bit of trigger experimentation. i've made some of the most beautifully smooth, short, crisp triggers you could imagine, without reducing spring tension (and therefor not reducing strike reliability)... but the point of diminishing return is an EXTREMELY fine line. in drop testing, i had FCGs that would drop the hammer from a 6" fall to the buttstock. but NONE would ever drop hammer when on safe.
    Last edited by bkb0000; 03-16-10 at 00:22.

  2. #12
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    Failure2Stop, rrpederson, bkb0000, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for, thanks. So it looks like the safety system is pretty darn robust, and barring catastrophic failure of some major parts, dropping a safed carbine from any reasonable height won't drop the hammer. That's reassuring.

    Armati, do you know what the criteria are for the M16/M4 system? I've seen some of the criteria for pistol drop-safety tests around the 'net, but have never noticed any for issue rifles.
    Last edited by benEzra; 03-16-10 at 08:17.

  3. #13
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    I had an AD in BCT running 2 man fire and manuevers. Weapon on safe, knees down, buttstock down, kaboom. I was pushing awhile for that one until my Drill Sgt could find a blank and it did it again. To this day I wonder why that happened and it's a good thing we had those long ass A2s, with an M4 and a collapse stock I could've took it in the chin w/ imperfect form
    I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. - John Adams

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  4. #14
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    Makes you reevaluate that smash series to the face now don't it should you ever have to use the buttstock socially.

    I would think with enough downward force the bcg could slingshot back up with enough force for the firing pin hit the primer.
    I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. - John Adams

    The AK guys are all about the reach around. - Garand Thumb.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeser25 View Post
    Makes you reevaluate that smash series to the face now don't it should you ever have to use the buttstock socially.

    I would think with enough downward force the bcg could slingshot back up with enough force for the firing pin hit the primer.
    you couldn't butt-stroke someone hard enough to cause a slam-fire... the weapon cycles WAY faster/harder than you could ever induce my mortaring it on someone's face.

    however, the risk of a hammer dropping if the weapon wasn't on safe is definitely there- i remember being concerned about that during bayonet drills. now that i'm older/wiser/much more experienced with the platform, i wouldn't hesitate to butt-stroke if i somehow found myself in a situation where the weapon is still loaded, on safe and, for some reason, im needing to buttstroke someone. i can't imagine a situation where the stars would align like that, but there it is.

  6. #16
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    I see anecdotal accounts on both sides of the issue. I believe what each person has posted. But until I saw some thorough study on the matter, I would NOT consider the AR a drop safe weapon.

  7. #17
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    never seen or heard of it happening in many years.

  8. #18
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    The AR is not designed as "drop safe" but I have it on *very good* authority that it would take a fall from about a seven story building to get it to go off. Apparently, if it lands exactly straight on the muzzle, it might go off from a three story drop.


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I see anecdotal accounts on both sides of the issue. I believe what each person has posted. But until I saw some thorough study on the matter, I would NOT consider the AR a drop safe weapon.


    I doubt we will ever see a study because one is not needed, at least with the military. If there was an issue, it probably would have manifested itself, especially during the last six years.

    My own personal study (experience) tells me not to be concerned about it and that it is not a consideration for keeping the weapon loaded.

    Caeser25,

    Was your AD in BCT with a blank?
    ParadigmSRP.com

  10. #20
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    Nope, live ammo, pointed almost at a 90 degree angle. I am 1000% positive that it was on safe, too.
    I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. - John Adams

    The AK guys are all about the reach around. - Garand Thumb.

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