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Thread: Taking From Others W/O Permission

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcmanus View Post
    This might sound kind of hippy dippy, but I think you should not assume that you are the only person in your immediate community that will have something to contribute towards survival simply because you have guns, a generator, and a freezer full of deer meat.

    There is strength in numbers, and so having a group of individuals larger then a small family unit may not be a bad thing. So to answer your question I would help immediate members of the community to the degree that they are able and willing to reciprocate with some for of similar help. For example, my fiance knows how to suture wounds shut, and other semi-advanced medical treatments. If I wasn't with her, and she was my neighbor, I would like having her around because of that knowledge. What if your neighbor is an electrician? Has woodsman experience? Knows how to garden?

    I've been in situations where people that didn't mean anything to me, complete strangers got really hurt, and I didn't have to do anything in response, but I still couldn't turn my back. I hate seeing victims, and it's a something I can't just turn off. So I must say I probably would offer more help then most. Not to everyone though.

    That is why I brought it up in this thread of philosophical discussion. Some folks are worth keeping others not, when and how are we making that distinction?

    Most of my neighbors are of the damned useful to have around group, I know this and realize that I will be muscle to keep the oldsters safe and basic mechanic, not a person in charge as I am not good enough at dynamic planning that one would need to keep a group of folks living for more than a few months without modern conveniences.
    Some other folks have folks of dubious utility or destructive attitude for neighbors; what is the minimal skills to take someone in?

    Guess I should have made my first post in this thread as more of a hypothetical, to get folk to ponder.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddiesketti View Post
    If it was you, i would try to side with these people to offer your services in exchange for food or meds.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmcmanus View Post
    There is strength in numbers, and so having a group of individuals larger then a small family unit may not be a bad thing. So to answer your question I would help immediate members of the community to the degree that they are able and willing to reciprocate with some for of similar help.
    I think that this aggregation would eventually lead to, for lack of a better word, Warlords running areas. From what I remember from organizational classes, 250 is a really common size for a defintion of "us". Aggregate these groups together under some kind of organization and you start to have a system. If times are really tough there will be individual leaders, less pressing times would amend themselves to some kind of junta. Probably a fair amount of democratic input in leaders to keep everyone franchised, but with strict rules and harsh punishments.

    I think this idea that you could hold out as a 4-6 member family group is fantasy best for made for TV movies. Like the rule in a gunfight, bring your friends and their guns. In a TEOTWAWKI I think you'll only be as safe as your 'clan' is vengeful.
    I just did two lines of powdered wig powder, cranked up some Lee Greenwood, and recited the BoR. - Outlander Systems

    I'm a professional WAGer - WillBrink /// "Comey is a smarmy, self righteous mix of J. Edgar Hoover and a gay Lurch from the "Adams Family"." -Averageman

  3. #23
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    ColdDeadHands:

    Vengeful or resourceful and well defended/territorial, but I agree with everything you said. I have actually had some experience working in groups and trying to create systems of governance/leadership organically and without the sue of societal parameters. These were basically social experiments in college through leadership classes, job training, and certain sociology/poli sci classes.

    Organic free forming units of people do tend to automatically gravitate to the charismatic single individual as leader, with a small elite group of people close to said individual to do the organization and management....

    Nathan:

    I think the answer in regards to "how helpful should the person be" needs to be answered based on your personal morals. For me the biggest definer is if the individual is predatory in anyway they go. That is Rule No 1. Second definer for me would be simply how the fit in with the group. Not everyone has to be super leader model 1000, some people may just like to chop big sticks into little sticks all day long and be left alone.

    The strength in #s concept is very real though. While I absolutely hated the ending of the movie, I just recently watched The Postman, and I think it depicts a pretty accurate portrayal of how everything would eventually pan out (in regards to the ways the social units are grouped). Also, if you haven't read it, I would suggest picking up Guns, Germs, and Steel, it is a great book, and there are a lot of lessons to be learned in it.
    Mobocracy is alive and well in America.*
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  4. #24
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    I'm beginning to think getting way into back country(mountainous) for an extended period may be the best plan. Buy land many, many miles from any civilization, with much prepping, and hunker down. Plenty of heirloom seeds, possibly transport chicken, cow, and goat(easy for us), already have well, septic, and small house before SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, and set up for the long haul. Avoid everyone until things settle down. This scenario isn't available for everyone, but for some of us, it may be good way to prep.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan_Bell View Post
    what is the minimal skills to take someone in?
    wellll.. that's gonna depend in part on what you need done whever you are, what skillsets you have and how many people you have.

    you also might have a situation where there's a couple or family and one or two are beneficial, but they might have members with limited benefit or what could seem to be complete liabilities.

    in a post-SHTF scenario, would Bill Gates or Stephen Hawking be assets or liabilities? just an example.

    some people will have few or no skills to offer... all you could use them for is unskilled labor, providing they are not too weak, too fat, too lazy, whatever.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixer View Post

    some people will have few or no skills to offer... all you could use them for is unskilled labor, providing they are not too weak, too fat, too lazy, whatever.
    Too fat and lazy will quickly be rectified.
    Last edited by FromMyColdDeadHand; 03-22-10 at 10:06.
    I just did two lines of powdered wig powder, cranked up some Lee Greenwood, and recited the BoR. - Outlander Systems

    I'm a professional WAGer - WillBrink /// "Comey is a smarmy, self righteous mix of J. Edgar Hoover and a gay Lurch from the "Adams Family"." -Averageman

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixer View Post
    in a post-SHTF scenario, would Bill Gates or Stephen Hawking be assets or liabilities? just an example.
    A neurologist just recently did a study about people as smart as these two, and one of the conclusions is that the people with this level of intelligence tend to be great problem solvers, good at innovation, and well rounded in multiple areas.
    Mobocracy is alive and well in America.*
    *Supporting Evidence for Hypothesis: The Internet
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    'All of my firearms have 4 military features, a barrel, a trigger, a hammer, and a stock."
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcmanus View Post
    A neurologist just recently did a study about people as smart as these two, and one of the conclusions is that the people with this level of intelligence tend to be great problem solvers, good at innovation, and well rounded in multiple areas.
    yes... but some might dismiss the typical scrawny nerd because they don't "look like the gung-ho hard charger" or not want someone in a wheelchair with speech problems, etc.

    my point is that sometimes you've gotta look a little deeper than just what someone looks like. not everyone needs to be a trigger puller, you may need leaders, cooks, mechanics, doctors, etc. and you simply can't tell what someone has to offer in one glance.

    IOW, "you can't tell a book by it's cover."

    "well rounded" is a GOOD thing.

  9. #29
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    I read the book "the road" a couple of months ago. It was basically a EOTWAWKI book with out much detail, but the horrors of the book could play out in reality if food was scarce enough. It was an utterly bleak novel without so much as a ray of hope at the end, but still a good read for the ultimate post apocalyptic hell you can imagine. All of these questions are discussed in some form.

    In this scenario, taking from others was expected, because there were NO options. The reality of this story is the complete desolation of the earth with almost zero chances of rebuilding or starting over. I think if the reality changes, the morality must change as well. If society collapses the rules would have to be different in order for society to rise again. Society always rises in some form or other. When the world has become uninhabitable, well I guess you get the point.

    I recommend the book if you have a pleasant outlook on life and would like to be rid of it for a while. They are making a movie, but from what I have heard, it bears little resemblance to the book. Time will tell.
    "Oh, its a wonderful day! My sun is shining, my birds are chirping, my humongous chicken defeated Elmo." Huxley

  10. #30
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    in a SHTF zombie scenario its like the marines. everyone is a trigger puller and the other jobs come second

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