Do I call bull dung?

[Joseywales]

OK. My brother in law, who is over 50, claims that during the Vietnam war, he worked as a CIA "Pentagon Force" operative in Laos and that his record is still classified. At least that is what my sister in law and sister (his wife) claim. He reciently went to the Naval Academy to visit my niece (in the top 10% of her class) and my sister in law said that some of the instructors there knew him. At least that is my translation of what she told me. She says that he trained with the Marines and Navy at Quantico. However, everything I know about Vietnam era operations and the special forces tells me that there were no "super secret" special forces and that most if not all vietnam era operations are declassified. I am thinking of going the Veri-Seal route, but don't want his name posted to their "Hall of Shame" if he is full of shit. I just want to know if what he is telling me is bullshit (I generally have a good bullshit meter when it comes to military info).

Anyone else think his story is fishy? Anyone think it could be authentic?

[Dport]

Sounds fishy, but the CIA did have more spook operator types in the 60s. If you did veri-SEAL it would be no guarantee that he didn't do what he said. It would just mean he wasn't a SEAL. The SEALs did work with the Agency without one belonging to the other.

At the same time, it is possible to know someone teaching at Canoe U without being a secret squirrel.

Best thing, to my mind would be gather as many details as you can and see if you can verify it through an impartial source.

As for "outing" him, what purpose would it serve?

[rhino]

As for "outing" him, what purpose would it serve?

Good question, and one I've asked myself before.

A few years ago, I met a friend of a friend of mine (and now he's a friend of mine too). Apparently since our mutual friend trusted me, he felt at ease with me and within half an hour of meeting him, he was regaling me tales of his experience in Vietnam. Most of the stories seemed a little "tall," especially the number of times he'd been hit by 7.62x39 on three separate occasions. I didn't really know what to make of it, so I just smiled and listened politely as it was entertaining at the very least.

It's good that I was skeptical, but it's also good that I didn't feel the urge to challenge or "out" him in some way. For one thing, it would have served no purpose in the long term. For another thing, I eventually learned that most if not all he told me was true.

I had the good fortune of being introduced to two plank holders of SEAL team 2 (I think 2) by this fellow, and when they saw him, they hugged him and greeted him by his callsign from when they served together in Vietnam. He never claimed to be a SEAL (was orginally in the Army and then who knows what), but he did work with those guys and now they are old friends.

So sometimes the tall tales are true, and it's tough to tell. My friend certainly didn't meet the internet forum profile of a "real operator" who is athletic and refuses to talk about their experiences. He's pretty much the opposite, but now I do not doubt the basis of his stories (although I recognize he might embellish for dramatic effect).

[ISAIAH53]

FWIW, I'm just curious as to how much over 50 he is. For example, I'm 54, meaning I graduated from high school in 1970. I enlisted in the Air Force about 2 1/2 years later, and was in basic when the POW's started coming home. I don't know if the CIA took kids right out of high school to do their secret squirrel stuff. Had I gone into the Army, say, right after graduation, would I have become a prime candidate, as a basic grunt, for the CIA within those 2 1/2 years? I'm sure the CIA kept operatives in theater at least into 1975, but, depending on when your brother-in-law came of age to serve, it would seem a relatively short time line in which to get into that line of work in SE Asia - not impossible.

[9x19]

Why not check this National Archives database to see if his name pops up on anything? It won't give you the whole story on him, but it could give you a couple of things.

http://aad.archives.gov/aad/

I would think if we were never officially in Laos, then those kinds of records might still be classified.

The term he uses, CIA Pentagon Force, sounds flaky to me.

[FlyAndFight]

It's quite simple, really. I would ask him to show you his "Secret Squirrel" patch. If he can't, then he ain't the real CIA Pentagon Force...

[Business_Casual]

Brother in law? That means you keep your mouth shut, IMO. The last thing anyone needs is family strife. Even if you don't think your wife would mind, why make potential waves you don't need? If he needs to be called on it, let someone else do it.

Just my opinion, friend.

M_P

[21407]

Nuke him, and go for the throat.

I've known several so called secret Vietnam operatives.

All were liars.

Do him a favor and drag him back into the real world.

[Army Chief]

Appreciate the sensitivities in play here, but many years of working in and around elite formations has taught me one largely immutable principle: those who have actually done such things generally do not talk about them outside of their own peer group.

Even many years later, veterans of such groups tend to exhibit a strong tendency not to make boasts. At best, they may answer direct questions, or recount a few rather limited memories, but the almost pervasive modesty (if that is the right word) that you find among bona fide black operators is one of their surest hallmarks. They know where they come from, and certainly don't need any praise from the rank and file in order to feel validated.

Telling one "war story" after another to anyone who will listen, and seeking an emotional boost from deliberately tying into a storied past? IMO, those are the sole domain of the poseur. I didn't even realize how bold some of these imposters were until I met one at an 82d Airborne Association Convention several years ago. He was quickly discovered and, uh, "forcibly ejected" by several of my drunken colleagues. (I almost felt bad for the guy.) Not saying it is the case here, per se, but I do find it sad the lengths some men will go to in order to find some sense of self-worth and/or belonging.

Chief

[C4IGrant]

The CIA was in fact in that area and were the first boots on the ground trying to stir things up and conduct training. So I can believe that part, but the part that I have a hard time with is his age.



C4