Current Obama/Health Care Threads here

Originally Posted by EzGoingKev

From talk radio yesterday they can still deny coverage, they just have to pay a fine. The fine is $100 per person denied.

WTF is $100 to the insurance company? Especially when medical bills can run into the hundreds of thousands.

OK, I fine you $100 for being named Kevin.

M_P

Yes. They are taking 600 billion in new taxes out of the economy. Its going to be harder to employ people, and hire new workers due to the mandates.



Private insurance is going to go up. Private insurance is a subsidy to the government plans, and the government plans pay pennies on the dollar to doctors for what private insurance pays more than the actual services really cost. This is because doctors and hospitals could not stay in business just treating government plan people as often times they lose money treating those patients.



Rarely is there such a thing as taxes on the rich because they are in the position to deflect those added costs into other segments. This includes business owners laying people off, cutting benefits, cutting pay, raising prices on products, etc. Its always the middle class, and somewhat the low income people who end up really paying for it. If you rich boss suddenly has to pay 20% more taxes in a year where do you think he is going to look to make up for that. Your paycheck, your benefits, etc. When you go to the grocery store you're going to pay more. The more taxes rise the less buying power your money has, and you might even start making less if you even keep your job.



This is why Europe historically has always had a much larger rate of unemployment than the US. Our recession numbers are somewhat normal for them. Many many more people over there are reliant on public transportation because they cannot afford to drive a car with the taxes, and 10 dollars for a gallon of gas. Mopeds are so popular over there because its the only way many can get around without sitting on a bus. The entire EU has around 500 million people, and barely has a higher collective GDP than the US at 300 million. High taxes create stagnant economies with tons of people reliant on the government. Less people go to secondary education there, their survival rates for disease is lower, their military's are almost a joke, and they are perhaps worse off in the debt department than the US is.


Yet the above is what our dear leader and crew want for us. A European style government where the people are not citizens but subjects (to their every whim). Obama complains 70k people a year die because they dont have health insurance. Ask Europe how many people die because their socialist systems have lower survival rates than we do.


In the long term taxes are going to have to go up to pay for all this. We are right now running about a 1.5 trillion yearly deficit. It has to go up. They are likely going to look at more taxes on this evil rich people and companies, more nickle and dime taxes on the people, raise the gas taxes, a VAT "sales tax" on top of our income taxes, high SS and medicare taxes, etc. A socialist government consumes far more money than what we are supposed to have- a small limited government. Check out what the Federal budget was 100 years ago compared to today after socialism has taken root in our system.

According to this video of President Obama from last week. The government is going to end up paying small businesses to cover their employees and that I should ask for a raise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc-GY

I showed this to my boss and asked for a raise...He told me to GTFO of his office.

The people who were for this bill believe what he is saying will actually be true.

the irony is illegals already get ER treatment under the current system. If you are illegal under the system you escape the mandate and probably still can get treatment. This smells like it increases the incentive to be illegal. Illegals would have more freedoms than us since they avoid the mandate and fine.

Our country is screwed!

shouldn't we increase the supply of healthcare to lower costs, rather than increase the demand. just a thought. it would probably cost less overall, and improve our economy if medical school was funded 100% by the gov... course we really can't expect outside the box thinking from the government.

Originally Posted by rifleman2000

Taxes will go up. People get laid off.

Business will be forced to provide more insurance. People get laid off.

More people laid off, more people on governments teat. More people, more money needed.

Taxes go up some more. More people get laid off... so on and so forth.

It is the Democrat SOP.

This will become a huge problem and mainly for the smaller businesses. Why would a small business that is currently struggling pay fines to keep people employed? They won't and I think we will see a jump in unemployment numbers because of this. And since there are so many programs for the unemployed, people will continue to pull money from the gov and not be out looking for jobs. This is just going to reward laziness and the cycle will continue to repeat as rifleman stated above.

S/F

Tim

I have been told that the tax increase on medical device makers (among other companies) will be offset by the increase in business. Who needs a device of sorts now and will all of the sudden go get it then? I struggle to see a direct increase in business for them, as most people who need any amount of care get it one way or another (via ER, etc). This, much like most legislation these days, seems to defy simple logic and cannot be figured out.

Originally Posted by modern_pirate

Why was Webster at the bill signing?

M_P

lol, that's what I was thinking.

When I heard this this morning I couldn't believe any democrat would actually admit the truth behind the obama care legislation. I heard on Rush that he has since called the radio station where he originally made the remark trying to retract his statement. Claiming he was too fatigued from the whole fight, and didn't mean to say what he had. Which is funny because we know that fatigue causes people to be off their guard, and thus be prone to blurt out the truth before thinking about it. Isn't that the reason that enhanced interrogation techniques use sleep deprivation? I wonder how much trouble representative Dingell received for letting the cat out of the bag?