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Thread: 2400 rounds in a BCM 14.5" upper with no lube

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    None of this pap is new info. People have been running ARs for thousands of rounds without cleaning them for years.

    The whole M4 unreliabilty issue is largely perpetuated by lying companies like LWRC who are trying to sell you overpriced solutions to a mythical problem.
    There is a big difference between cleaning them and lubing them. In this case, any residual lube was stripped off, and it was neither cleaned nor lubed.

    M4/M16 unreliability myths have been going on since Vietnam, as has the myth that AKs are not accurate. LWRC, POF, or whatever AR piston manufacturer you want to mention don't deserve the blame entirely.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    Its a misleading title when it leaves out that a FZ BCG was used.
    I believe what causes some confusion is the following paragraph

    Recently, I received a milspec equivalent (barrel length/gas port size/gas system length) M4-type upper from Bravo Company USA (BCM) to test my theory that a heavier buffer and spring with enhanced extractor tension would give extraordinary reliability with no lubrication or maintenance whatsoever. I have shot over 2500 rounds with the FailZero kit with EXO Technology coating on four separate occasions with no lubricant, as well as a ceramic coated rifle (to include bolt and bolt carrier group) from Next Generation Arms that currently has 4000 rounds on it without cleaning or lubricant, and also no malfunctions. I have also routinely shot a Noveske N4 14.5”-barreled rifle over 2500 rds with only 6-8 drops of oil every 500-700rds fired without any issues. If I used those rifles or parts for my test, many would say “well those are custom coatings/guns and military guns don’t have that.” For that reason, BCM was kind enough to send me a stock 14.5” upper on which to do the test. Prior to the test I did the following:
    1. Remove all visible oil and lubricant from the inside of the upper receiver.
    2. Disassemble the bolt carrier group (BCG) and remove all lubricant inside and out
    3. Put a Crane O-ring on the existing extractor spring
    4. Use a lower receiver with a Sprinco standard Blue spring and an H-3 buffer (I used an H3 because it was close to the DPMS Extra-heavy buffer I use in most of my rifles.
    However, as I understand it for this test he specifically used a standard BCM M16 BCG in a standard BCM 14.5" upper, and stripped all visible oil and lube from both prior to the test.

  3. #13
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    I want to play with buffer, action spring, and ammo variables in mid-length guns and SBRs to see what the magic combination might be. We all hear things like "Wolf runs weak and dirty" but I wonder if there isn't a magic break point where the unlocking is delayed and less of that fouling escapes into the upper but there is still enough pressure to cycle the gun.

    I think I just found a use for my BCM standard midlength I was going to sell to fund a lightweight!
    Last edited by rob_s; 03-30-10 at 12:20.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamsammich View Post
    That's Pat Rogers and his "Filthy 14" BCM carbine.
    According to Pat, it started having some reliability issues at about 26,460 rounds, at which time it was given a "quick clean" (its first!) which did not rectify the problem, so the BCG was replaced.

    As of 3/21, Filthy 14 has 31,675 rounds through it and is in need of an extractor replacement on the "new" bolt (which now has about 5200 rounds on it).
    Last edited by shooter521; 03-30-10 at 12:45.

  5. #15
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    really interesting article, thanks

    I love my middys more now
    Last edited by ForTehNguyen; 03-30-10 at 15:59.

  6. #16
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    Just read this as it came with my BCM upper...

    This barrel has never been changed? No key-holing issues reported? Yet another misnomer I have been carrying around due to gun show acquired intel; the barrel life of an M4 is 15000 rounds before its "worthless."
    Matthew 10:28

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I want to play with buffer, action spring, and ammo variables in mid-length guns and SBRs to see what the magic combination might be. We all hear things like "Wolf runs weak and dirty" but I wonder if there isn't a magic break point where the unlocking is delayed and less of that fouling escapes into the upper but there is still enough pressure to cycle the gun.

    I think I just found a use for my BCM standard midlength I was going to sell to fund a lightweight!
    Looking forward to the writeup; great idea, Rob.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    The whole M4 unreliabilty issue is largely perpetuated by lying companies like LWRC who are trying to sell you overpriced solutions to a mythical problem.
    Wow, that is pretty harsh commentary. I don't have a dog in your fight, but claiming a weapon runs cooler and cleaner doesn't appear to be a lie if the claim is backed up with facts. Is there something else that I am missing from the "lying companies"? I surmise that includes Ronne Barrett and Barrett firearms, Smith and Wesson, LMT, HK, and now Ruger. We can leave Colt out of the equation until they ultimately offer one.
    Last edited by Coleslaw; 11-01-10 at 13:36.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    Wow, that is pretty harsh commentary. I don't have a dog in your fight, but claiming a weapon runs cooler and cleaner doesn't appear to be a lie if the claim is backed up with facts. Is there something else that I am missing from the "lying companies"? I surmise that includes Ronne Barrett and Barrett firearms, Smith and Wesson, LMT, HK, and now Ruger. We can leave Colt out of the equation until they ultimately offer one.
    What facts do you have to offer?

  10. #20
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    Coleslaw

    What do you think does more to reduce chamber temperature - a heat sink barrel nut or a gas piston/op-rod system?

    How much cooler is the gas block of a piston/op-rod AR than a standard AR?

    How much cooler are the handguards of a piston/op-rod AR than a standard AR?

    Do you think a free float rail that allows air to circulate is less effective than having a gas piston/op-rod system?

    Can you give me specific numbers for anything listed above?

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