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Thread: LMT putting out junk...

  1. #51
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    Belmont31R,

    I appreciate your perspective and think you are right to ask questions like this, in a forum like this, to find out what others are seeing. Especially if you have been trying to buy a company's products and have been dismayed by what you are finding. Waiting to see hundreds of examples over a long period of time is just laughable.

    R/

    DC

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by D. Christopher View Post
    Belmont31R,

    I appreciate your perspective and think you are right to ask questions like this, in a forum like this, to find out what others are seeing. Especially if you have been trying to buy a company's products and have been dismayed by what you are finding. Waiting to see hundreds of examples over a long period of time is just laughable.

    R/

    DC

    I think you might have mis-read my comments and or not fully understand how manufacturing works. All companies put out bad products. Sometimes those bad items could be 50 or more (in that cycle).

    I personally would not judge a company by only seeing a handful of examples. This is why I stated that I do the following if I believe something is going on:

    1. Check my existing inventory.
    2. Contact my fellow dealers to see what their inventory looks like.
    3. Contact profressional instructors to see what they are seeing in training classes.
    4. Check to see if I have any e-mails from customers complaining about the product.

    Then, based off of this info, I would form an opinion.

    What is "laughable" is someone making a snap judgment about a company that has a long standing history of providing quality weapons and parts to NSW, LE and Civilians based off a handful of products.


    If I thought a company was going south based off of 10 or less products, I wouldn't have a SINGLE product to sell. For instance, I recently got some M4 Receivers in. Everyone of them won't accept a charging handle (pinches it). Do I think that this companies products are crap? No way. I contacted them, informed them of the problem and gave them a solution to the problem. They thanked me for the info and are sending me replacements. Apparently they had a whole string of receivers that are bad. Funny how this stuff happens.



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 03-29-10 at 16:58.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    So serious bad machining doesn't affect them?

    The purpose of anodizing is to harden the surface of the AL, and secondary is to give the metal color. If you have pin holes that are not finished that means you have relatively soft metal in a wear spot. The anodizing is there to reduce wear, and an unfinished pin hole is going to wear out quicker than one that was finished.

    Also if you fail to machine the trigger pin holes round, and loose enough to where the pin wobbles in the lower...that will likely lead to problems down the road.

    As far as the LPK pieces I mentioned......they "look" like crap. I know how they look doesn't affect function. What Im saying is they do not look like what Im used to LMT seeing, and based on everything else I saw I can only assume the two are related to a lack of QC lately.

    The bottom line is I have no idea why people have come to accept bad parts as a mark of pride or something because they are a "serious end user". Colt has a good reputation for quality, and aside from a few lemons you wont see this kind of crap on their guns. You would certainly see good stake jobs, trigger pin holes machined well, pivot pin holes that are machined well, and actually anodized, etc. That is the type of thing I would expect to see on brands with far lower a reputation than LMT, and Ive always thought of them as being one of the better choices out there.
    Understand all. My post was not directed at you specifically.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  4. #54
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    I thoroughly inspected my LMT upper that I bought 3 months ago before buying.
    finish was good, everything was tight and the FA BCG was properly staked.
    YMMV

  5. #55
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    i work at a small well stocked [black rifle heavy] gunshop,after reading the OP'S post i inspected the 35 complete lowers we have in stock and besides the color deaL ALL were a-ok,thankfully.the 15 complete defenders we have were all a-ok also,thankfully.i just completed my own 3rd lmt lower bcm upper combo's and are all rifles i would take to war if needed, i guess rough examples sneak out every once an awhile but let's not slam anyone without lettin LMT make it right first. my 1st lwrc m6a2 went back to maryland the day after i took it to site in because it was grouping 12 inches at 50yrds, sent it in had it back in aweek ,bad barrel, stuff happpens, don't ask how many rugers, xd's, sw's,winchester's and remmy's go back weekly and those are the BIG makers.taurus lately is really having issues,gofigure!! skinja

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    I think you might have mis-read my comments and or not fully understand how manufacturing works. All companies put out bad products. Sometimes those bad items could be 50 or more (in that cycle).

    I personally would not judge a company by only seeing a handful of examples. This is why I stated that I do the following if I believe something is going on:

    1. Check my existing inventory.
    2. Contact my fellow dealers to see what their inventory looks like.
    3. Contact profressional instructors to see what they are seeing in training classes.
    4. Check to see if I have any e-mails from customers complaining about the product.

    Then, based off of this info, I would form an opinion.

    What is "laughable" is someone making a snap judgment about a company that has a long standing history of providing quality weapons and parts to NSW, LE and Civilians based off a handful of products.


    If I thought a company was going south based off of 10 or less products, I wouldn't have a SINGLE product to sell. For instance, I recently got some M4 Receivers in. Everyone of them won't accept a charging handle (pinches it). Do I think that this companies products are crap? No way. I contacted them, informed them of the problem and gave them a solution to the problem. They thanked me for the info and are sending me replacements. Apparently they had a whole string of receivers that are bad. Funny how this stuff happens.



    C4


    Sorry Grant not everyone has an existing stock of parts to go "inventory", trainers to contact, dealers to call, etc.


    I didn't realize my opinion isn't worth posting because Im not a big name dealer with inside connections..... For that matter most dealers do not qualify. I doubt both my local dealers combined would see hundreds of LMT lowers in even 5 years.

  7. #57
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    Big difference between a vendor, an individual civilian owner, and a civilian trying to buy. Just to make myself clear, I'm not making any snap judgements or calling anything crap. I am simply saying I appreciate Belmont31R's perspective and understand his frustration. What you might do as a vendor is, and probably should be different than what an individual does. You are looking at the parts you receive in your shop, not as someone looking at them in someone else's shop, with an eye towards purchasing. You obviously see a lot more examples of the parts you deal with than most individuals do. You also have a little more clout with those manufacturers because you buy in larger quantities, are very experienced, and have a great reputation.

    If it were me, I would have sent a note to the company in question, or maybe called customer service to let them know my concerns and what I was seeing, both for their benefit and my own. But I would at the same time be asking questions publicly if there were a forum with many experienced people whose opinions I valued. I would probably word it differently than the OP, but to each his own.

    And you're right about one thing. I've only been involved in manufacturing since 1991, so I still have a lot to learn. I guess you could say I don't fully understand it.

  8. #58
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    I'm not sure if LMT is slipping in the QC area or if this is a case of people piling on. It seems to me that LMT screwed up by not publicizing their switch to MIM gas keys. If MIM is better, or "as good", they should have marketed it that way. Plus, I hear they quit chrome lining the keys. By making the change without advertising it, they left the door open to conjuncture and speculation that it was a cost cutting measure for increased profits. As far as QC, I saw a post on the other site that showed clear pictures of cracking where the key was staked. I believe two different keys were photographed and several other posters claimed to have cracking around the staking. I would think this would be cause for concern. (If anyone calls BS I'll have to spend two days looking for the thread, but I will follow up and link to it.)

    I'm thinking that LMT is a victim of their own success. They were a smallish company that perhaps grew too quickly and let their QC slip. Perhaps in an effort to fill orders, they're letting things through that would have been pulled in the past. Grant is probably correct that the majority of their products are still top notch, up to spec and people are just piling on. That comes with the territory though of being thought of as one of the best. Perhaps they should slow down and double down on QC. They should also publicize it when they change components if they don't want people to speculate.

    Just my two cents. FWIW my LMT is top notch all the way around. I bought it in August of 08 before the big rush though.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Sorry Grant not everyone has an existing stock of parts to go "inventory", trainers to contact, dealers to call, etc.
    Fully understand that. This is why I would have done your post differently (personally). Something like this:

    Title: How is quality of your LMT?

    Body: I own two LMT lowers and they are very good. Went to two local gunshops and saw a handful of LMT lowers that looked on the rough side. What is everyone else experiencing with LMT lately?


    I didn't realize my opinion isn't worth posting because Im not a big name dealer with inside connections..... For that matter most dealers do not qualify. I doubt both my local dealers combined would see hundreds of LMT lowers in even 5 years.

    You can post whatever you want. I just wouldn't have done it the way you did based off your limited knowledge of the big picture. Why? Because it is typically unfair to the manufacturer. That is my only point.


    C4

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by D. Christopher View Post
    Big difference between a vendor, an individual civilian owner, and a civilian trying to buy. Just to make myself clear, I'm not making any snap judgements or calling anything crap. I am simply saying I appreciate Belmont31R's perspective and understand his frustration. What you might do as a vendor is, and probably should be different than what an individual does. You are looking at the parts you receive in your shop, not as someone looking at them in someone else's shop, with an eye towards purchasing. You obviously see a lot more examples of the parts you deal with than most individuals do. You also have a little more clout with those manufacturers because you buy in larger quantities, are very experienced, and have a great reputation.

    If it were me, I would have sent a note to the company in question, or maybe called customer service to let them know my concerns and what I was seeing, both for their benefit and my own. But I would at the same time be asking questions publicly if there were a forum with many experienced people whose opinions I valued. I would probably word it differently than the OP, but to each his own.

    And you're right about one thing. I've only been involved in manufacturing since 1991, so I still have a lot to learn. I guess you could say I don't fully understand it.


    This is all fine and fully understandable (and is what I would do).

    Asking questions (like I posted above is just fine). The OP did NOT post a question. He made a statement. This is a big difference IMHO and is what got my attention.

    On a lot of forums, 10,000 people a day can read a thread. Is that fair to the manufacturer? No, I don't think it is.



    C4

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