Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 102

Thread: Commandant throws in a plug for the M16A4

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    330
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by texag View Post
    I am well aware that there are some stellar shooters that use irons, but do you really think they are the best option?
    What am I doing? Am I blasting some terrorist across the street or am I trying to pick out a single hostile from a mob two blocks away? 4x ACOGs are a good piece of gear. The irons that are put on the A2 are a good piece of gear. Neither are optimal for all things.

    Your original comment was that one couldn't get a proper sight picture with an A2 stock, ACOG and body armor. I'm 5'11" 190 and I can do it. So my question to you is if you can't get a sight picture with an ACOG and can't make hits then do you think NOT using irons is the best option? Especially if you CAN get a sight picture and make hits with the irons.

    My original comment was I loved my A2 and the fact it makes a better club. My M4 was a cool thing but I (meaning myself, me) prefered my A2. I shot better with my A2 because it was a more solid platform. I never really liked the cheap collapsible stock that was on my M4 and the 14.5" barrel never seemed to be an improvement over the 20" barrel on my A2. You can improve the stock on a personal firearm but you are limited to what you can do to an issued weapon.
    I like franks & beans

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    11,063
    Feedback Score
    41 (98%)
    The M4 is much better for getting in and out of vehicles, general carry, and CQB.



    A2 stock is too long for most people especially when using an ACOG which requires the shooter to get up close. At best its awkward.



    The only thing the A4 is slightly better at is velocity. Not worth the trade off when you suddenly have a gun that is 6-8" longer, harder to maneuver with around vehicles, inside dwellings, is heavier, etc. I carried an A4 for a year in Iraq, and I'd like to have had an M4 for the reasons listed above.....not because its "cool"....but because for the modern mission the M4 is simply a better weapon. The A2 stock is already long, add in body armor, and an optic that requires (basically) NTCH shooting....the A4 is harder to shoot effectively.




    And yes the urge to resist change runs deep. Happens in any large institution where the people in charge "grew up" with one set of equipment and one way of doing things.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    212
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by xrayoneone View Post
    What am I doing? Am I blasting some terrorist across the street or am I trying to pick out a single hostile from a mob two blocks away? 4x ACOGs are a good piece of gear. The irons that are put on the A2 are a good piece of gear. Neither are optimal for all things.

    Your original comment was that one couldn't get a proper sight picture with an A2 stock, ACOG and body armor. I'm 5'11" 190 and I can do it. So my question to you is if you can't get a sight picture with an ACOG and can't make hits then do you think NOT using irons is the best option? Especially if you CAN get a sight picture and make hits with the irons.

    My original comment was I loved my A2 and the fact it makes a better club. My M4 was a cool thing but I (meaning myself, me) prefered my A2. I shot better with my A2 because it was a more solid platform. I never really liked the cheap collapsible stock that was on my M4 and the 14.5" barrel never seemed to be an improvement over the 20" barrel on my A2. You can improve the stock on a personal firearm but you are limited to what you can do to an issued weapon.
    What service and MOS are you?

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,066
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by xrayoneone View Post
    What am I doing? Am I blasting some terrorist across the street or am I trying to pick out a single hostile from a mob two blocks away? 4x ACOGs are a good piece of gear. The irons that are put on the A2 are a good piece of gear. Neither are optimal for all things.

    Your original comment was that one couldn't get a proper sight picture with an A2 stock, ACOG and body armor. I'm 5'11" 190 and I can do it. So my question to you is if you can't get a sight picture with an ACOG and can't make hits then do you think NOT using irons is the best option? Especially if you CAN get a sight picture and make hits with the irons.

    My original comment was I loved my A2 and the fact it makes a better club. My M4 was a cool thing but I (meaning myself, me) prefered my A2. I shot better with my A2 because it was a more solid platform. I never really liked the cheap collapsible stock that was on my M4 and the 14.5" barrel never seemed to be an improvement over the 20" barrel on my A2. You can improve the stock on a personal firearm but you are limited to what you can do to an issued weapon.
    Well I'm 5'5" and trying to shoot an A2 with armor on was ****ing laughable. I have a feeling you aren't a grunt if you think you are representative of the average Marine's size.

    Jay
    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but in the very least you need a beer."
    — Frank Zappa

    If the gun goes dry I use my knife. If the knife breaks off I use my teeth. I have only one rule - Start one job and see it through - The universe will have to offer someone else the leftovers. Multi tasking doesn't work in business or in gunfighting.
    - Michael de Bethencourt

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    760
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by dookie1481 View Post
    Well I'm 5'5" and trying to shoot an A2 with armor on was ****ing laughable. I have a feeling you aren't a grunt if you think you are representative of the average Marine's size.

    Jay
    That must be why all my 0331s were midgets! All this time I thought they were being mean at SOI, now I learn that they just didn't want to give the little guys A2 stocks!

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,028
    Feedback Score
    13 (100%)
    If this turns into a dick measuring contest, your dicks are going to get stomped.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    212
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I've got a little baby dick, so no need for any measuring.

    I asked about his Service and MOS simply for frame of reference to his posts.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,183
    Feedback Score
    0
    If you're in Afghanistan wouldn't you want the longer barrel + ACOG setup?

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    NM
    Posts
    3,988
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)
    The realistic tendency is that officers and some SNCO's will end up with M4's (and in my job, those literally live in an armory) while the guys out on patrol everyday are carrying A4's. I just got back from Helmand, where my buddies were working every day out of LAV's, carrying M16A4's while our senior leadership in the rear worked at securing theirs in the BHQG armory so they wouldn't have to carry them to chow anymore.

    There are many instances where I'd personally be happier with a 20" barrel, but the A2 length stock has to go for use with body armor, especially if the abortion of a tactical vest that is the MTV is going to remain standard issue. My ape-like stature allows me to fire the A4 pretty effectively, but it doesn't take a genius to idenify the obvious issues.

    The ACOG is the correct optic for now - until there's a rugged, affordable variable zoom setup that allows range estimation, includes daylight illumination and BDC, the ACOG will be the preeminent optic for infantry engagements. M68's with FTS magnifiers are a good alternative for M4's.

    I can't fault the CMC for this - if that's the gear we have, no point telling us that it's garbage. The A4 with RCO is still far better than the A2, and there's lots of other needless weight in our overall load anyway. It's still a ****ing travesty that we're using 39" rifles on guys with body armor, shooting SS109 for COIN operations, mostly out of vehicles. Doctrine and procurement establishments in the military are notoriously glacial, but the answer to this is leadership willing to demand better gear for the actual guys on the ground.
    Last edited by TehLlama; 04-01-10 at 04:56.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
    کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
    Semper Fi
    "Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice. " - Sinister

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,066
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by 87GN View Post
    That must be why all my 0331s were midgets! All this time I thought they were being mean at SOI, now I learn that they just didn't want to give the little guys A2 stocks!
    All of our 0331's were monstrous. Like 6'2, 230#.

    Jay
    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but in the very least you need a beer."
    — Frank Zappa

    If the gun goes dry I use my knife. If the knife breaks off I use my teeth. I have only one rule - Start one job and see it through - The universe will have to offer someone else the leftovers. Multi tasking doesn't work in business or in gunfighting.
    - Michael de Bethencourt

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •