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Thread: I get the feeling that many people don't realize how accurate Iron Sights can be

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
    Especially when the target is not Target Indicator Black against a white background as pictured above.
    Ya screwed up there I know you meant when the target 'IS'

    You already know this but the rest may not. Tereza (15 yr at the time) shot a 6920 at the CMP match last year.

    http://www.odcmp.com/Photos/09/EJrHPClinic/cimg1273.htm


    I had to do an emergency buy from Gotm4's store of the 6920. I ended up trading the 6721 for a RRA NM4A for Perry.

    600 yrds is her sweet zone........especially when the paper can't shoot back.
    Last edited by Smuckatelli; 04-06-10 at 19:52.

  2. #22
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    I shot Expert in the Corps (84-88). It was 500 Meters on the Left Coast and 500 Yards on the Right Coast from the prone. So I know how to shoot irons and know that they can be deadly accurate. But at 44 with bad eyesight, a good RDS is a Godsend. My eyes haven't deteriorated to the point where I can't get minute of man out to 200 with military irons (without prescription shooting glasses), but I can do it a hell of a lot faster with a dot. So I'll leave the irons to you 20somethings.

  3. #23
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    I agree with "glocktogo" except mine was the Army from 73-80. I am 11 years older than he. I too am much faster with a RDS. Also, I believe, the amount of ammo and training required to become proficient with an optic is much less than iron sights.

    In your example video they were exceptional shooters with "NM" rifles (weighted butt stocks, NM sights, free float handguards, tuned triggers...,) shooting jackets, slings... That is not the average grunt.

    I agree that a person can become extremely accurate with iron sights, but the amount of training to first learn and then the amount of "maintenance shooting" to retain that precision is more than the average grunt, cop or civilian will get.

  4. #24
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    Not to mention the rifle I was shooting with in the Corps was a beat up old piece of crap compared to anything I own today.

    Expert last time on the KD course with a score of 56. The range week high.

    I don't know why it's faster to train someone with optics than irons. How hard is it? front aperture inside rear, bang.
    Last edited by trunkmonkey; 04-07-10 at 00:53.

  5. #25
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    Some people have an issue the consistently aligning the front sight in the rear aperture and that is more difficult to learn than place the dot on the target. Also many seem to have difficulty with a consistent cheek weld which is more crucial with irons than a RDS. I am not saying they should have these issues, but many cops are not firearms enthusiasts and I have seen more issues training them to use their iron sights with the same level of accuracy they use their RDS.

  6. #26
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    The other issue is maintaining focus on the front sight. It takes discipline to keep from focusing on the target instead. That dot grabs your eye though and you can still focus on the target.

  7. #27
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    It's not just young guys that can hit with irons and not always with match grade rifles.

    Case in point: Back in '91, I was in my mid-20s and had been in the Highpower game a couple years when an older gentleman showed up at a match - looked to be in his '70s at least. He did not have a rifle of his own, so he picked an M1 off the rack (one of the club guns), looked her over and with a simple "this'll do", he set up in the position next to me. As the match started, he commented to me that it had been many years since he'd fired an M1, and hoped he'd do ok in the match.

    Since we were next to each other, we ended up scoring each other's targets. Much to my amazement, the guy posted a high expert score. I was giving him a little crap about his earlier comments and he responded (quite graciously, I might add) "son, you didn't have to learn to shoot like I did". Turned out he was in the Pacific with the Marines during WWII. He told me, "we had to make our shots count and them bastards was shootin' back at us". I was truly humbled that day.

    So, it's not the tool, it's knowing how to use it that counts.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba FAL View Post
    It's not just young guys that can hit with irons and not always with match grade rifles.

    Case in point: Back in '91, I was in my mid-20s and had been in the Highpower game a couple years when an older gentleman showed up at a match - looked to be in his '70s at least. He did not have a rifle of his own, so he picked an M1 off the rack (one of the club guns), looked her over and with a simple "this'll do", he set up in the position next to me. As the match started, he commented to me that it had been many years since he'd fired an M1, and hoped he'd do ok in the match.

    Since we were next to each other, we ended up scoring each other's targets. Much to my amazement, the guy posted a high expert score. I was giving him a little crap about his earlier comments and he responded (quite graciously, I might add) "son, you didn't have to learn to shoot like I did". Turned out he was in the Pacific with the Marines during WWII. He told me, "we had to make our shots count and them bastards was shootin' back at us". I was truly humbled that day.

    So, it's not the tool, it's knowing how to use it that counts.
    Good story and all but who said "it's just young guys?"

  9. #29
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    That iron sights can be used with great precision under ideal circumstances has never been an open question. That they can be used with relatively good speed under ideal conditions has similarly never been a point of controversy. The problem is that serious social interactions with rifles do not seem to occur under ideal range conditions terribly often. So while the iron sights may work very well on a nice bright range day with a target courteous enough to stand still and to be colored in such a manner to provide the best possible sight picture, it doesn't necessarily follow that the irons will have the same utility in low light on a moving target who is rude enough to move and shoot back.

    Personally I cannot fathom why this issue seems to be so confused. Nobody with any sense that I'm aware of has ever said that iron sights are useless or impossible to use well. Under ideal conditions they can be used with excellent precision and accuracy. The reasons behind the endorsement of RDS by knowledgeable people has everything to do with the dynamic nature of gunfights.

  10. #30
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    I think someone had an axe to grind and didn't understand the nature of this site, JW7777.

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