Two inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights using a Carbine with a 16 inch barrel and federal xm193. ammo.
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Two inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights using a Carbine with a 16 inch barrel and federal xm193. ammo.
I consider myself a decent shot and I cannot regularly shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I shoot Wal mart brand 55 grain ammo and use a 2 or 4 moa aimpoint. My groups are usually in the low twos. I have shot one inch groups, but it usually involved a bag rest, better ammo, and luck.
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I'm normally good for about 1 MOC (minute of cat) @ 100 yards standing with irons.![]()
A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from the top of a mountain. -unknown
I try to focus on combat style shooting not measuring groups. FMJs-of-Freedom
I hit a 20 inch target out to 500 yards, Rifleman standard. So at 10 yard line thats a hmm 80 MOA group and at 500 thats 4 moa.
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Ash Hess
Government Sales Specialist at Knights Armament Company
ahess@knightarmco.com
Senior writer of TC 3-22.9 Rifle and Carbine
US Army Master Marksmanship Instructor.
Sionics Weapon Systems AR15 Armorer
In my opinion it's a good thing to be able to shoot accurately. I consider accurately to be between 1" and 1.5" at 100 yards with no stress and good conditions.
I believe that learning the skills to be able to do this helps us when we are out shooting for real - movement, stress, weather, two way range, fog of war, etc....
My opinion has always been that one of the best ways to learn the fundamentals is through slow controlled precision shooting. Then moving on to quick fire while maintaining accuracy that will get the desired results against the specific target - be it a running coyote, deer, human, paper, etc.....
I personally do not find it difficult to get 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yards with a quality AR, good ammo, and decent weather. This is from the prone position supported by a pack, sandbag, bipod, etc.... When I drop the support I usually open up some and go to about 1.5" to 2" at 100 yards. This is true for me regardless of the sights used. I get similar results with my 2 moa Aimpoints or iron sights. I can tighten up my groups when I go to a nice scope like my 10X scope.
I have read posts before where folks will say that with a 2 moa dot the best group a person can get is 2 moa. I have never found this to be true myself. I find that it has everything to do with point of aim unless that dot itself is bigger than the target (covers the target). I've also found that drawing different sized circles on the targets (shooting paper for group) allows me to tighten my group when using the Aimpoint. This is just for group of course.
My groups open up tremendously when shooting under real conditions and my goal has always been to keep my shots in a 6" group - of course I don't always keep my shots in a 6" group especially under stress and rough conditions.
In my opinion it's a good thing to be able to slow down and take a precision shot if necessary. If a person only trains to hit at combat type accuracy then they might not have the tools necessary to take a necessary shot when needed.
Last edited by joshua79109; 04-08-10 at 12:09.
Joshua 24:14-15
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke
Being that I am not a bench-rest, long-range, accuracy shooter I tend to find discussions of "how accurate can you shoot" to be largely a waste of time but also an indication of newbie-ness (for lack of a better term.
I do think it's important to understand the fundamentals and know how to apply them, and I do think that practicing at longer range aids in that but beyond that...
Agree with the others though, you don't not have to be able to see a 1" paster at 100 yards in order to shoot a 1" group.
Additionally, accuracy = ammunition + equipment (gun, barrel, etc.) + shooter
Many people attempt to shoot tiny little groups while handicapping themselves in one category (or all three). I guess it's interesting once or twice but after that....
If shooting at long-range I find it FAR more interesting to engage multiple targets of a given size than to try to shoot a small group. I think it's harder to shoot the center of ten 8" rings at 200 yards in 10 shots than shoot a tiny group on one 8" ring at 200 yards with 10 shots.
The furthest I've ever shot is at 200 yards and I was able to hit a 6" steel plate with XM193 out of an 11.5" A1 profile barrel using a 4 MOA dot. I was happy and moved on.
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