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Thread: Common myths held about NFA

  1. #21
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    The most recent questions that I have fielded over here are as follows;

    1. Don't you have to have a Class III license to own suppressors and stuff?

    2. Don't you have to pay the $200.00 fee every year on your items?

    3. Aren't suppressors illegal for the average person?



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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Did you keep a copy of the form 4?


    C4
    Yes for my records I did, I also made a copy of his to show that the ownership changed.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    Yes for my records I did, I also made a copy of his to show that the ownership changed.
    So the $10,000 dollar question is, would most of the consumers (that are buying from a stranger) be ok with someone having all their personal info.

    On top of that, if the NFA item is a firearm, a 4473 is supposed to be filled out (but not called into NICS). So how would a FTF (in state sale) be handled???


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 04-08-10 at 14:42.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    This. A good shoot is a good shoot.


    C4
    I want to preface this by saying I agree 100% with the above.

    However, something that I read on silencer talk but can't find it currently was that any "crime of violence" where an NFA item is used carries additional federal minimum sentencing requirements. For example, a suppressor or full auto carries an additional 30 years. SBR carries 10 years. I googled and the portion of the law I see cited for this is (18 U.S.C. § 924(c)(1)). I believe that is part of the drug control act and is usually used in drug cases, but it seems the term "crime of violence" is pretty generic.

    This implies that if a prosecutor can convince a jury that use of force was not justified, you could face the potential for serious additional prison time.

    Does anyone know if this is true? I am not a lawyer and have no idea, but would love to know more about this from anyone in the know, and dispel this if it indeed is a myth.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfulback32 View Post
    I want to preface this by saying I agree 100% with the above.

    However, something that I read on silencer talk but can't find it currently was that any "crime of violence" where an NFA item is used carries additional federal minimum sentencing requirements. For example, a suppressor or full auto carries an additional 30 years. SBR carries 10 years. I googled and the portion of the law I see cited for this is (18 U.S.C. § 924(c)(1)). I believe that is part of the drug control act and is usually used in drug cases, but it seems the term "crime of violence" is pretty generic.

    This implies that if a prosecutor can convince a jury that use of force was not justified, you could face the potential for serious additional prison time.

    Does anyone know if this is true? I am not a lawyer and have no idea, but would love to know more about this from anyone in the know, and dispel this if it indeed is a myth.
    The othe key part that plays a role in all of this is if there is a Castle Doc. in place. Ohio has one. So the burden (if they are in my home) is pretty much off the homeowner.


    C4

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfulback32 View Post
    Does anyone know if this is true? I am not a lawyer and have no idea, but would love to know more about this from anyone in the know, and dispel this if it indeed is a myth.
    Check this out http://www.justice.gov/olc/2009/semi...ic-weapons.pdf

    Prior to 1994, section 924(c)(1) provided as follows:
    “Whoever, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime . . . uses or carries a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime . . . , be sentenced to imprisonment for five years, and if the firearm is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun to imprisonment for ten years, and if the firearm is a machinegun, or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, to imprisonment for thirty years.”
    Follow the link and there's 14 pages of fun stuff to read.
    Last edited by Irish; 04-08-10 at 14:55.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    On top of that, if the NFA item is a firearm, a 4473 is supposed to be filled out (but not called into NICS). So how would a FTF (in state sale) be handled??
    4473 is a requirement for someone licensed under GCA. Virginia has legal private sales.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The othe key part that plays a role in all of this is if there is a Castle Doc. in place. Ohio has one. So the burden (if they are in my home) is pretty much off the homeowner.
    No, it's still on you and it's still an affirmative defense. The "castle doctrine" just means you have no duty to retreat in your own home and every state has that in some form or another at this point - it doesn't shift the onus to the prosecution to prove you weren't justified. It doesn't work that way anywhere. If you deliberately kill another human being, you have the burden of proving it was justified.

    Same story with all of these "make my day" and "civil immunity" laws and so forth. If you actually read them, they say that you're not liable if you were justified based upon a list of criteria - you still have to prove that you satisfy those criteria, which means you can still be sued and you still have to go through discovery, and possibly even trial, to show that the law even applies to your case. So basically they add nothing of practical value to the law as it already existed.
    Last edited by dbrowne1; 04-08-10 at 16:16.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfulback32 View Post
    However, something that I read on silencer talk but can't find it currently was that any "crime of violence" where an NFA item is used carries additional federal minimum sentencing requirements. For example, a suppressor or full auto carries an additional 30 years. SBR carries 10 years. I googled and the portion of the law I see cited for this is (18 U.S.C. § 924(c)(1)). I believe that is part of the drug control act and is usually used in drug cases, but it seems the term "crime of violence" is pretty generic.
    There is a 99.999999% chance you will be dealing solely with state court if you're involved in a shooting, so this charge would never even be an option as it applies only in federal court.

    That said, there are plenty of state laws out there that they could use to stack you if they decide you committed a crime. "Use of a firearm in the commission of a felony" or something similar as an additional charge. You can't get caught up with those possibilities. Worry about making good decisions about whether to use force, not the minutiae of what crimes they could stack on you.
    Last edited by dbrowne1; 04-08-10 at 16:25.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    4473 is a requirement for someone licensed under GCA. Virginia has legal private sales.
    Ya I guess since it is a used NFA weapon it would need to have a 4473 filled out and stored.

    I am just kind of cautious when dealing with the ATF and what they can later come back and say that you did something wrong (in regards to paper work).



    C4

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