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Thread: ATF knocked on my door...(off topic)

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    (snip)This is not an anti-police board - far from it. But, it is a RIGHTS board, and the "If you don't have anything to hide, you should just let the police dig through your shit anytime they want and you're a skell if you don't" shit needs to ****ing STOP here.(snip)
    That's odd - I thought this was a technical firearms discussion board.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pennington View Post
    I'm going to regret this but... (snip)
    *Thank you very much* for your insights. I've saved a copy of your post to digest at leisure.
    Last edited by HeavyDuty; 04-10-10 at 11:54.

  2. #72
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    I may be wrong but there is nothing illegal with a short barreled upper.
    (notice i didn't call it a SBR)
    An SBR is when you put that upper on top of a lower and connect the two pins making it a functional rifle.

    The OP is not currently in jail or had anything confiscated so i'm guessing he made
    a judgment call at the spur of the moment and in this case everything turned out ok for him.

    He and only he knew all the variables that came into play.
    He knew he had a vindictive ex-friend that caused this and knew the officers involved
    would be more pissed at the false claim if (knowing he had noting to hide) he
    helped them, was very polite even offered them coffee and calmly explained the story
    of a friend and money that turned him into an ex-friend.

    The OP was correct that it should have taken more than one phone call to get the BATFE out at his house with local police to conduct a search.
    There had to have been several and maybe he even got other people he knows
    or asked on some messed up internet forum for "help" in busting a "bad-guy" and got others to e-mail in.

    If that is the case then it should turn up in the wash because i doubt if every agent is going to let the time/money spent on this search just go away without
    some outcome or way to end the case log.

    Yes there are things you should do and not do BUT there is also the ability to
    improvise in that heat of the moment.


    Congrats to the OP on his excellent handling of this event.

  3. #73
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    One afternoon a knock at the door. Two very young guys (early 20's) wait at the door my wife answers to "ATF we are here to do a compliance check."

    After looking at ID's, I asked them to come in and have a seat. I have a few NFA items so I figured they wanted to see them or something. Turns out
    they wanted to see 2 handguns I purchase at the same time a year earlier. They checked the serial numbers off them said everything was good. I asked if they need to see anything think else. They said "your collection is your private business, we shot the shit for a half hour or so and they left..

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank207 View Post
    One afternoon a knock at the door. Two very young guys (early 20's) wait at the door my wife answers to "ATF we are here to do a compliance check."

    After looking at ID's, I asked them to come in and have a seat. I have a few NFA items so I figured they wanted to see them or something. Turns out
    they wanted to see 2 handguns I purchase at the same time a year earlier. They checked the serial numbers off them said everything was good. I asked if they need to see anything think else. They said "your collection is your private business, we shot the shit for a half hour or so and they left..


    Now this sounds rather extreme. Have you provided all of the relevant facts?
    "Facit Omina Voluntas = The Will Decides" - Army Chief


  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chameleox View Post
    . I don't want to be hassled or delayed more than anybody else, but if it means I can stay out of cuffs and get on with my day, then I'll do it. Someone here mentioned that just shutting up isn't always a good idea, since it will effectively force officers to rely on someone else's statements. This is very true, and while you might still beat the case in court, that doesn't mean that your arrest, based on someone else's statements that you didn't deign to refute, was wrongful. You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

    The guy you let in might have been cordial, commented on your sweet collection, looked over some paperwork, broke out the measuring tape, and offered to help you straighten up when done. I've had similar instances with open carry contacts. Had you said "no", AS IS YOUR RIGHT, he might leave and not come back, but depending on who else they talked to, what your ex-buddy told them, how the bosses feel, he might be back. In some jurisdictions, that might mean less of a knock and talk, and more of a breach and yell the next time he comes a'callin. Depends on what they already have, or reasonably believe they have.

    Not saying you should automatically consent to save yourself some possible hassle, but you shouldn't automatically refuse to cooperate because its your right.
    Its a balancing act, and a judgement call.
    Guys, I thank you again for all your experience and help in this situation. I didn’t want to cause a riff or argument among you guys, I know well enough to stay away from politics (& religion). As far as the SB uppers, I had them all in a case, separate from lowers which were stripped and/or missing many parts, inoperable. The lowers all had legit uppers as well. I figured if something was wrong, then I wouldn't be typing this right now. It may come to me selling a lot of my stuff and just keep a handful of guns; I don’t shoot the majority of them anyway. I have guns that I purchased in the 90’s that I never fired, so they aren’t doing anything other than taking space. Don’t get me wrong, I love firearms since I was a kid. The first thing I did when I turned 21 was buy my first pistol, a Sig 229 40 cal. I didn’t go to the bar and drink, I went to the range and had fun. Firearms have been my hobby, from BB guns when I was 10 to a 1967-68 Browning Auto 12g that my uncle gave to hunt with; I have been into guns since I could remember. I don’t want to lose my right to possess firearms, so I figured cooperate since I knew that their reason for being there was a bogus statement made to ruin my day. See, the vindictive friend needed money to pay restitution (court fees and tickets) because he was nailed for felony evading arrest and DWI. So he needed money quick or he was going to jail. He wanted me to loan him $ and hold his guns, but I refused to do that and now I own his guns (he already owes me $500 from a previous loan 5+years ago). IMO, I’m a good old guy and would help someone out if needed. But, screw me over and I will not be so nice, so this time I kept the guns, I’m not a pawnshop. Anyway, the guy was angry and wanted me to lose my guns & freedom, just as he lost his. I live next door to a local PD officer, and I will be talking to him shortly and see what he could tell me. My intention is to learn from my mistakes and experience to become wiser and more informed. Most important point I realize is I have a good life & a beautiful family; I don’t want to lose that. Thanks fellas.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4Guru View Post
    What the **** is an "illegal upper"?

    Anyone with a CC and address can order almost any upper on the market in about 30 seconds on BCM's web site.

    It's only illegal if you assemble it into an illegal firearm. You are at the mercy of the ATF as to whether you have "constructive intent" or not.
    Am I wrong in understanding the law? My understanding is that for you to legally own a upper that is less than 16" you must have a lower that has been approved for a SBR and the tax stamp to prove it.

    My understanding is that you cannot have a lower and a SBR upper together if you don't have an NFA approved lower.

    Is that incorrect?

    If you are at the "mercy" of the ATF doesn't that put you into a very grey area that most law abiding would like to stay away from? If said grey area can put you behind bars then how can you argue that it is legal?


    There was recently a case where a man was arrested, I believe in Fla, that had a stock in his possession that would fit his HK pistol that he was selling.
    Last edited by d90king; 04-10-10 at 12:53.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by perna View Post
    You should stop assuming things.
    You've now twice described 2 separate events completely incorrectly. Warrants and traffic stops with K9 searches. I'm assuming nothing. You continue to provide evidence that you simply don't know how it works. Don't get offended by that just go learn.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by d90king View Post
    Am I wrong in understanding the law? My understanding is that for you to legally own a upper that is less than 16" you must have a lower that has been approved for a SBR and the tax stamp to prove it.

    My understanding is that you cannot have a lower and a SBR upper together if you don't have an NFA approved lower.

    Is that incorrect?

    If you are at the "mercy" of the ATF doesn't that put you into a very grey area that most law abiding would like to stay away from? If said grey area can put you behind bars then how can you argue that it is legal?


    There was recently a case where a man was arrested, I believe in Fla, that had a stock in his possession that would fit his HK pistol that he was selling.
    I understand your point, and I realize a grey area exists in this circumstance. I purchased the SB uppers w/ the intention of registering a SBR, but have not done so. I can always add a 5" flash hider ( I do have a couple of 5 inch f.h. from older uppers) and make them legal for a "preban" stripped lower that I have. Would that be ok ? IMO, I probably should get rid of them entirely, to avoid any further problem. I really do not need a SBR, I would much rather sell them and buy a 16 inch mid-length BCM upper.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by d90king View Post
    Am I wrong in understanding the law? My understanding is that for you to legally own a upper that is less than 16" you must have a lower that has been approved for a SBR and the tax stamp to prove it.

    My understanding is that you cannot have a lower and a SBR upper together if you don't have an NFA approved lower.

    Is that incorrect?

    If you are at the "mercy" of the ATF doesn't that put you into a very grey area that most law abiding would like to stay away from? If said grey area can put you behind bars then how can you argue that it is legal?


    There was recently a case where a man was arrested, I believe in Fla, that had a stock in his possession that would fit his HK pistol that he was selling.

    It may be a gray area, but gray isn't illegal. You also have pistol lowers to think about.

    The Florida guy you're talking about had the same pistol and stock back up online for sale within 60 days of his arrest.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Also there is no way LE is tearing up my house without a warrant.
    nah, probably not me either...
    Last edited by ra2bach; 04-10-10 at 13:37.
    never push a wrench...

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